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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Mendoza Combo Cups (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mark Ross
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I am the pleased and proud owner of a set of copper Mendoza Combo Cups, purchased from Shawn B, a poster here at the Café. They already have a nice patina on them and they handle beautifully. I am happy. Does this mean that I retire my Charlie Miller Cups that I have been using since 1998?

Mark
cupsandballsmagic
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Send 'em to me Mark, I'll look after them Smile

Bri
ShawnB
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I am glad you like them Mark.

Best

Shawn
Shawn.
Rainboguy
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Mark:

The answer you want is "NO".

I have a set of Mendoza Combo Cups, too, and love them, and also have a set of Charlie Miller Cups that I bought years ago at Magic, Inc. for $55.

Hold onto those Charlie Miller Cups! They will only go up in price...plus (as you know) those are great cups!

Yep...they're "A Man's Cup!".
REV BILL
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IMHO, The Mendoza Combo Cups can do some things tahat other cups cannot. They are great.
Specializing in Family Entertainment,Gospel,Comedy and Educational programs for over 30 years.(Order of Merlin)
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2010-05-07 09:18, Rainboguy wrote:
Mark:

The answer you want is "NO".

I have a set of Mendoza Combo Cups, too, and love them, and also have a set of Charlie Miller Cups that I bought years ago at Magic, Inc. for $55.

Hold onto those Charlie Miller Cups! They will only go up in price...plus (as you know) those are great cups!

Yep...they're "A Man's Cup!".


If current prices are any indication, the value of the Charlie Miller cups may be dropping. Two years ago, it was not unusual to see them fetch $250 - $300 for a good set. Now they are selling for around $150.

The same thing has happened to Paul Fox cups. It's a matter of the economy. You can't eat cups, drink them, live in them or put them into your gas tank.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Pete Biro
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I'm working on an accessory for cars that run on ground up cups. Some collectors I know will be able to driver for years without buying petrol.

Posted: May 7, 2010 1:38pm
Oh, and one day rummaging around in the back room at Magic Inc., with Jay Marshall, I stumbled on a large box full of the Miller cups. At that time he had forgotten about them and told me they were $44 a set. Why I didn't buy them all I can't figure. Duh.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Donnie Buckley
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Pishaw - that makes absolutely no sense!
The RNT2 balls are adjustable, meaning I can drop a ball in that cup and it will BARELY cling, or I can drop a ball in that cup and it will stick like glue.
And Magi-Poxy isn't used anymore because it was virtually outlawed by the EPA! No one will touch it today.
The Mendoza Combo Cups are the same as they have always been... from the prototype to the batch I am polishing this week.

I don't get it. John must have been using an inferior ball when he was critiquing the Mendoza Combo Cups.
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
pabloinus
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Donnie, what are you referring to?
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2010-05-07 16:50, Donnie Buckley wrote:
Pishaw - that makes absolutely no sense!
The RNT2 balls are adjustable, meaning I can drop a ball in that cup and it will BARELY cling, or I can drop a ball in that cup and it will stick like glue.
And Magi-Poxy isn't used anymore because it was virtually outlawed by the EPA! No one will touch it today.
The Mendoza Combo Cups are the same as they have always been... from the prototype to the batch I am polishing this week.

I don't get it. John must have been using an inferior ball when he was critiquing the Mendoza Combo Cups.


?

Has a reference been deleted here?
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Olivier BIENVENU
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Yes my link to an auction site was removed. I don't know why.
Lawrence O
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The Mendoza cups are nice but his routine is even better and he has some misdirection lines which are worth even more than the cups themselves. John is a real master (not only at the C&Bs) and his magic is highly practical without any quality concession. As lots of us are aware of his work, I've always wondered why his name doesn't come more often in our discussions: he offers a lot to learn from. Buying his books and DVDs is really a bargain for what we get.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
cupsandballsmagic
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Quote:
On 2010-05-08 01:09, Bill Palmer wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-05-07 16:50, Donnie Buckley wrote:
Pishaw - that makes absolutely no sense!
The RNT2 balls are adjustable, meaning I can drop a ball in that cup and it will BARELY cling, or I can drop a ball in that cup and it will stick like glue.
And Magi-Poxy isn't used anymore because it was virtually outlawed by the EPA! No one will touch it today.
The Mendoza Combo Cups are the same as they have always been... from the prototype to the batch I am polishing this week.

I don't get it. John must have been using an inferior ball when he was critiquing the Mendoza Combo Cups.


?

Has a reference been deleted here?


Bill / Pabloinus,

There was a link to an ebay auction posted which had comments that Donnie was responding to.

I believe it may have been deleted because it was an ebay link rather than the comments made regarding the cups.

Bri
Donnie Buckley
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Quote:
On 2010-05-07 20:15, pabloinus wrote:
Donnie, what are you referring to?

I was referring to that eBay auction link you posted.
I agree with Lawrence O, John Mendoza's contributions to Cups and Balls routines, and particularly Combo routines are significant and often taken for granted. He should receive more aclaim than he is credited with.
I need to contact him and discuss the Mendoza Combo Cups - there seems to be some misunderstanding about the strength of the gaff required for all routines (like the Kent Gunn routine) and the RNT2 Adjustable Ball techniques.
As RNT2 customers know, the Adjustable Chopped Ball provides a significant advantage in customizing the "feel" of your Chop Cup routine. It allows you to pair our balls with ANY cup.
Donnie
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
cupsandballsmagic
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It takes a matter of seconds to adjust the RNT2 balls once you are familiar with them.
Dave V
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FYI
Here's some of the text by John Mendoza from that particular auction (now closed)

Quote:
Back in 1980 I had Tim Star make me some very special sets of Combo Cups & Balls for a European lecture tour. He did an incredible job, making them of beautiful gleaming bronze. They are, and still remain, the absolute best set of Combo Cups I have ever used and, believe me, I use Combo Cups probably more than any other magician in the world. Tim went to great pains to assure that the magnet strength was exactly correct, not too strong and not too weak. Making cups that satisfy this need involves several factors that most people probably wouldn't even think of, from the interior height of the cup to the placement of the magnet to compensation for the weight of whichever metal the cup is fabricated from and more. Tim took all these factors into consideration and made the best set. A couple of years ago, a set of the original bronze cups from that lecture tour was offered for $2500.00 and, as I understand it, they sold. Since all but two of the original 48 sets sold in Europe, they are very rare and almost impossible to find.

I did not realize Tim even made additional sets beyond my lecture tour, much less sets from different metals. This is an absolutely fabulous set of Tim Star Cups made in gleaming spun aluminum. RNTII later reproduced these cups, but did not pay attention to detail as did Tim and the magnetic strength of the RNTII cups is horribly incorrect; way too strong. Unfortunately, these cups have been named the Mendoza Cups. Their prototype set that I endorsed was not the same as the final product and so it was a disappointment when I later received shipments of cups that bore my name. I only mention this so nobody confuses this set of cups with the so-called Mendoza Cups. The Tim Star cups are far superior.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Donnie Buckley
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Thanks for going the extra mile Dave.
John's commentary on the cups is really a criticism of the balls he was using.

I think the only problem the previous owner of RNT2 had with the adjustable balls was that he never put the instructions on how to do it in print.
Each set of RNT2 Chopped Balls now come with a full sheet of printed instructions with details on how to adjust the balls to exactly the strength you desire, and registered customers of the webstore (members of the RNT2 Insider Club) have instant access to the PDF document.

Apparently when John was working with his second set of Mendoza Combo Cups, he was using unadjustable balls from some other vendor. His original set possibly <i>included</i> balls that were pre-adjusted to our personal taste to that particular set of cups. The only difference between the two cup sets would be in the balls used.

When pairing balls to cups, you have to consider that the field inside the cup can be exactly the opposite of an identical set. Some cups are positive inside and some are negative. Once you understand that the Adjustable Ball is also polarized, you understand that a ball must be paired to a particular cup for optimum consistancy if you want the cup and ball to respond the same way <b>everytime</b> without fail.

I recently assembled a set of cups for dsalley13, a member of this forum (and all around wonderful person who just so happens to be impatient with me at the moment...). She wanted a set of cups made entirely from 3 PF Mini Combo Cups. You might not consider this, but IF the polarity of one of the cups was different from the other two, huge problems could be created once the gaffed balls were introduced. I made certain that each of her cups where polarized identically.

Now, the PF Mini Chop Cup was originally a mistake. The original PF Mini Chop Cups were made for the PF Mini Combo Sets, but the gaff was too strong. This CAN happen when you are working with mini cups because the diameter of the balls is so restrictive, the balls just can't be adjusted ENOUGH to compensate. My solution was to offer the cups as stand-alone Chop Cups in the mini PF style AND include the information that a larger ball was required for the cup because of the strong gaff. This solution is practical because you don't' need to nest any cups in a CC routine. A 7/8" ball is heavier and more adjustable, and that diameter of ball, and larger, worked ideally with the cup. Interestingly, I first revisited the 5/8" and 3/4" balls and reduced the length of the gaff in those balls so I get a greater adjustment variable with those smaller diameters also. That little PF Mini Combo set really caused me to extensively test the smaller gaffed balls and make some changes that increase the performance and reliability of them.

I take the subject of Combo Cups and Chop Cups very seriously. I spend a lot of time and energy using the gimmick in a wide range of cup sizes and ball sizes. I currently manufacture 10 different Chop Cups, 5 different Combo Cup sets, and balls in 7 different size. I've tried all the combinations! And I'm telling you, the secret to success with this gimmick lies within the ball.

Fortunately, when used properly, the gimmick provides some startling magic - so it's worth it!

Donnie

p.s. And as far as I'm concerned, Tim Star is a god and can do no wrong.
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
Olivier BIENVENU
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I posted the link because I didn't want to quote a text without its context. I though it was interesting to have the opinion of the person who gave his name to a set of cups.I have a set made by Jake and I really like it. I should be able to compare with the tim star set soon. I didn't want to offend anybody and if I did I appologize.
cupsandballsmagic
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You can't argue with that Donnie, between Tim Star and John Mendoza the path's for 99% of everyone's current combo routines were layed...
Dave V
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Oliver,
I don't think any readers were offended. It's just that the Café staff has a thing for ebay links as the link may be dead for future readers. In this case it would have been better to quote the pertinent text rather than the link itself.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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