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J.G. the magnificent
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This summer I will be busking once I get my car back. Afterwards though and I have experience. I want to start doing some parties. Everyone wants me to do kids but that seems too beginerish even if they can be your best critics. Childeren and adults are entirely diffent. In my opinion I would think with adults being smarter you can do more routining and experimenting. Kids like simple visual things. Besides I don't know if I have the right personality for kids being I am more serious. The reason I am posting this is I am unsure of how do do a routine. How do I advertize? I wouldn't mind table hopping but I could also have people watch a routine. If I were to routine would it be on a stage or what? I know it depends on how you advertize and the gig. I really don't know what to expect. I want to start planning my act.
Jeremy Gates
Al Angello
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You are making a lot of bad assumptions about kids magic. There is no audience as sharp as a group of 10 to 12 year old kids.

Before you can do any of the above mentioned goals you must have a well rehursted act, after you get this polished act you can think about what you want to do with it.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
J.G. the magnificent
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Quote:
On 2010-05-12 23:05, Al Angello wrote:
You are making a lot of bad assumptions about kids magic. There is no audience as sharp as a group of 10 to 12 year old kids.

Before you can do any of the above mentioned goals you must have a well rehursted act, after you get this polished act you can think about what you want to do with it.

Kids being sharp is what I meant by them being great critics. Yet they are different from adults in that. Adults are easier to fool that and kids only want simple things vanishes and appearances. When I do a card trick for kids they want a pick a card. I can locate their card through rising, ambitious, card shooting, card to impossible location and they just say but I want you to find it. As though they think I am not finding their card unless I thumb spread the deck and use a key card or break. They cant understand more complex tricks as foinding their card. You said I need a act before anything else but that is the whole point of this post. I am not sure what type of act to plan if I don't know what a party performance environment is like. I could ask the people as they hire me but I don't think I am supposed to plan a act last minute according to each party. Their are people that do that but they are very experienced and know alot.
Jeremy Gates
RebelEntertainer
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John Abrams
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Hi Jeremy,

I don't want to offend you in any way. But it doesn't appear that entertaining children is your cup of tea.

There's a ton of money to be made there, but from your post, your mindset seems to be that children's entertainers are "beginnerish". And you also don't seem to have a grasp of what children really want.

So, with that in mind, you may want to look in a different direction.

There's an old expression that goes something like:

If you love what you do, you'll do it all the time.
If you do it all the time, you'll become great at it.
If you become great at it, you'll love doing it even more.

Who do you think you might LOVE performing for? Who do you inspire in your day to day life? What type of people do you really get along with? Corporate types? High School kids? Fun party folks? Men? Women? The more specific, the better you can niche your market and create a show specifically for that market.

Answer those questions and you might get a better idea of who you'd like to perform for.

Find your passion. The rest will follow.

John Abrams
Rebel Entertainer and Guy That's Cheering You on While You Find Your Passion
J.G. the magnificent
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Quote:
On 2010-05-13 00:36, RebelEntertainer wrote:
Hi Jeremy,

I don't want to offend you in any way. But it doesn't appear that entertaining children is your cup of tea.

There's a ton of money to be made there, but from your post, your mindset seems to be that children's entertainers are "beginnerish". And you also don't seem to have a grasp of what children really want.

So, with that in mind, you may want to look in a different direction.

There's an old expression that goes something like:

If you love what you do, you'll do it all the time.
If you do it all the time, you'll become great at it.
If you become great at it, you'll love doing it even more.

Who do you think you might LOVE performing for? Who do you inspire in your day to day life? What type of people do you really get along with? Corporate types? High School kids? Fun party folks? Men? Women? The more specific, the better you can niche your market and create a show specifically for that market.

Answer those questions and you might get a better idea of who you'd like to perform for.

Find your passion. The rest will follow.

John Abrams
Rebel Entertainer and Guy That's Cheering You on While You Find Your Passion

I didn't think about it when I posted it but I guess I do kind of think that. However after thinking a while I am not sure that children envertainers are begginerish. I just get that impression because everyone says I should start there. At the same time though I guess a lot of experienced magicians prefer children. I didn't mean to offend children entertainers in case I accidently did.

Anyway I am not sure what group I really get along with because I am shy. Magic is my way of attention but once I get it I cant keep a conversation or start one without tricks. For the most part really. With the exception of a few close freinds that I just click with. Some of my closest freinds are old enough to be my parents though. I have been told I am very knowledgable and mature for my age. I don't feel it though but with that being said is one of the reasons why I would like to perform for adults.

Just not sure which group, magic is I guess my way of finding where I fit in. It is a way of learning to talk with people and interact. No other performance art is as interactive with as magic. It has helped me so much over the years. I have not only learned to talk and interact more but read and write. Along with aquiring hand eye corrdination and dexterity. As far as groups go though I never talked with a lot of people in high school though everyone loved me. Just didn't know what to do with the attention, not around enough corporate people, girls come to me, my mom is very out going and the life of the party but that is her and not me. I am currently a child supervisor, party helper/host at a place that has inflatable bouncers. I learned to be freindlier and more outgoing but I still get constructive critisizm. I am just not always sure what to say. Though in my magic I am fine talking because I know it is about what I am doing and interacting. I can narrate my actions and instruct the volunteers even crack jokes which I can do well at times.
Jeremy Gates
Ken Northridge
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I'm not a busker but I would imagine you would have had to run into all types of people, including children, to give you a good idea of what you enjoy most. Entertaining children is a whole different ball game and can be very rewarding if that is where you passion is.

With your busking experince you may find you're a natural for table hopping.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com
J.G. the magnificent
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Quote:
On 2010-05-13 06:31, Ken Northridge wrote:
I'm not a busker but I would imagine you would have had to run into all types of people, including children, to give you a good idea of what you enjoy most. Entertaining children is a whole different ball game and can be very rewarding if that is where you passion is.

With your busking experince you may find you're a natural for table hopping.

I haven't busked yet but will be. I don't mind performing for children though I just don't want to make a career off of children.
Jeremy Gates
sb
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One thing to think about, you may not want to have a career working for children - but that can be a great place to start your career, and see where you go from there.

Some reasons its easier to start there: there are a lot of gigs working for children, and a lot of gigs translates into a lot of experience and a lot of money.

Most audiences will include children.

If you work restaurants you will certainly run into some kids. In fact, the management will probably expect you to work for the families with kids. (sure you could work a high end place that caters to adults, but there are way more possibilities to break into the restaurant world working for families)


-sb
J.G. the magnificent
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Quote:
On 2010-05-13 12:01, sb wrote:
One thing to think about, you may not want to have a career working for children - but that can be a great place to start your career, and see where you go from there.

Some reasons its easier to start there: there are a lot of gigs working for children, and a lot of gigs translates into a lot of experience and a lot of money.

Most audiences will include children.

If you work restaurants you will certainly run into some kids. In fact, the management will probably expect you to work for the families with kids. (sure you could work a high end place that caters to adults, but there are way more possibilities to break into the restaurant world working for families)


-sb

It being easy and everyone telling me to is part of why I didn't want to. Yet I like the way you put it maybe I should try it. I could get a lot of buisiness their and with me working around kids their parents would offer me jobs. I have in fact been asked but I stated that I am not ready. I should start though get a act together and print off some buisness cards. Although I do not work in a resturant if that's what you meant. You sort of confused me as to what you meant their. I make sure kids are safe while they bounce in inflatable bouncers occationally hosting or helping out parties that they do there. I have a party sunday actually. I do tricks but only if they are done with everything else and the people in charge approve it. I have never done a routine though I just bring some things and go with the flow. Besides they are usually so enthrawled with everything wanting to see the sponge balls and show me a card trick. I interact letting them a act would mean telling them to calm down and moving on. Not right that would ruin the mood.
Jeremy Gates
Al Angello
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Who ever told you that kids shows are easy? Entertaining children is not easy, it is more likely to keep you at the top of your game.

Restaurants that hire magicians are usually family restaurants.

Generally busking audiences are family audiences.

There are far more children, and family jobs out there than there are adult jobs.

Your preconcieved notions will only limit the number of jobs that you book.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
J.G. the magnificent
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[quote]On 2010-05-13 13:22, Al Angello wrote:
Who ever told you that kids shows are easy? Entertaining children is not easy, it is more likely to keep you at the top of your game.

Restaurants that hire magicians are usually family restaurants.

Generally busking audiences are family audiences.

There are far more children, and family jobs out there than there are adult jobs.

Your preconcieved notions will only limit the number of jobs that you book.
[/quote
I actually just meant easy in what you stated easy to get.
Jeremy Gates
Al Angello
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Oh
I misunderstood you. Yes a busy kids show magician can do two or three parties on Saturday, and Sunday afternoons.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Dannydoyle
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Make no mistake about it, a good childrens entertainer is a skill set that needs to be perfected. (One I happen to lack in spades)
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
J.G. the magnificent
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Perhaps I should try kid shows besides I might meed adults in that way getting a reputation and work my way to adult shows.

Posted: May 13, 2010 11:30pm Reply with quote Send a Private Message View Profile of J.G. the magnificent Edit/Delete This Post Report this post to forum moderator View Posters IP (Moderators/Admins Only)
I have gotten a lot of great replies however none of which have answered my original question. "I am unsure of how do do a routine. How do I advertize? I wouldn't mind table hopping but I could also have people watch a routine. If I were to routine would it be on a stage or what? I know it depends on how you advertise and the gig. I really don't know what to expect. I want to start planning my act." I guess I would advertise according to what I plan on doing but how do I go about that? Do I blatantly say I do stage routines in whatever environment like cabarete and theater? Or for instance some that I have seen just do a standing show with a crowd and no platform or stage. Not sure what I would call that though? I could say I do table hopping but not even sure if people know what that is? I know some advertise for companies at career fairs at a booth. If I were to do any possible combination of work how would I state that? Do I give a long list which I have seen? Or simply state that you do all environments or at least that you do certain ones? Like say you state that you do all except such n such?
Jeremy Gates
MichaelDouglas
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JG

I think that you are asking questions of others that really only you can answer for yourself. Others can't set goals and direction for you. As you consider the type of Magic you already know how to do, what do you enjoy most? When you've performed for others, which types of settings worked best for you? Where did you get the best audience response? After considering the answers to these questions, then get started somewhere.....anywhere. Try it a few times and if you don't like hopping tables for some reason, then try a different type of Magic.

To gain the experience, there are plenty of opportunites to volunteer your skills if you ask around: retirement centers, day care, your cousins b-day party, your family reunion, strangers on the street, etc. As you gain the experience, then your heart and passion will come more sharply into focus.
Donald Dunphy
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Step 1: Create a show. You'll have to learn about routines, etc. Read books, watch instructional DVDs, find a mentor, etc.

Step 2: Rehearse it privately, and then rehearse it in front of audiences. Do not charge money for rehearsing. Some groups are more suitable for polishing a show, than others.

Step 3: Only after you have created an act worth money, should you do any promotion / marketing. Don't put the cart before the horse.

When I was a teenager first starting out in magic (25+ years ago), I did lots of shows for school classrooms, birthdays, etc. Lots of kids shows at venues that didn't threaten other professionals. I think I also did a few daycare shows and retirement home shows. At some point, someone gave me an honorarium for my performance. With help from my parents, we decided it was time to start charging money for shows. I started out with a fairly low price until I became more professional. I chose the path of living room shows (parlour shows) and stage shows. I didn't really pursue close-up magic.

When people ask you to do shows that are beyond your scope of experience or skill, just be honest with them, and say that you haven't done that sort of show yet, and that you are still starting out.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
John Martin
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Quote:
I did lots of shows for school classrooms, birthdays, etc. Lots of kids shows at venues that didn't threaten other professionals. I think I also did a few daycare shows and retirement home shows.


What professionals would want to work these venues!!!!LOL
Donald Dunphy
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I still do shows in some of those venues, and I'm a pro. Smile

However, I don't feel threatened by a kid just starting out trying to do shows there, too, and I think the customers know the difference between a beginner and long time pro. Also, the "forgiveness factor" with those types of customers is fairly high, if you are just a beginner.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
John Martin
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Relax Donald, just yanking your chain. Your commment was amusing because that's where most professionals work!!!! Shessss, you pros are a tightass bunch.
Ed_Millis
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Quote:
"I am unsure of how do do a routine. How do I advertize? I wouldn't mind table hopping but I could also have people watch a routine. If I were to routine would it be on a stage or what? I know it depends on how you advertize and the gig. I really don't know what to expect. I want to start planning my act."


I'm going to make a few assumptions here. I may be totally off-base, but I hope you'll at least be honest in your reaction and response.

You sound like an older teen. You sound like you are trying very hard to be "grown up", and whatever that means to you, it means you will be there when you get far away from "kid-ness" and "up there" with the adults.

The answers to all of your questions are in the thousands of posts here and the New To Magic forum. You've also been given a lot of good direction from the responses to your question. But you are unable to see the good direction, because it doesn't look like the specific direction you think you need to see.

You are immature. This is _not_ a slam!! It's simply saying that you are not who you want to be yet. This is a place *everyone* passes through in life - you're not defective and you're not being put down. You're not stupid - in fact, you're smart enough to ask questions and stick around for the answers. That tells me you are on the way out of immaturity. And there's a lot of people twice your age who can't say that!!

But it does mean there is a lot you must learn. There's a lot of answers we can give you, but they make no sense because you don't know what to do with the info. Again, you're NOT stupid - you just haven't learned some things yet. (Like teaching my kids how to drive - I am not going to let you out at night on the main road until you've gone around the block several times first!)

Spend some good time doing searches and reading posts on the Café. Do not ignore recommendations for books on performing.

Find out "who you are" as a person and as a magician. What appeals to you? What kinds of people? What kinds of magic? What kinds of environments? When you look through magic stores or their web sites, what kinds of magic make you stop and envision *you* doing that?

Have you seen very many performances? Or just demo videos? You need to try and see some performances, even if just old TV shows or DVDs. Maybe there's a working performer near you who will let you tag along and lug equipment, and then talk his ear off after the show.

You're also thinking like a magician:
Quote:
I can locate their card through rising, ambitious, card shooting, card to impossible location and they just say but I want you to find it. As though they think I am not finding their card unless I thumb spread the deck and use a key card or break. They cant understand more complex tricks as foinding their card.

You'll find it stated all over here: the audience (ANY audience, not just kids!)doesn't care _how_ you do the magic! They didn't come to see your technique - they came to be entertained. You are into techniques right now, and that's not bad. But you'd better start adding pure entertainment, or no one will want to see you. That's why you can't entertain kids right now - they don't care about reverse-engineering your techniques, they just want entertainment, and you don't have much to give them.

One more time - this is NOT meant as any kind of slam! But it IS the wall everyone enthused with magic must face. You're either going to find a way through this wall and become a more professional performer, or you're going to stay where you are and play with card tricks. The way through the wall is by learning, then doing, then improving.

One way to learn is to stop arguing with people who already are where you want to be. If you don't understand what to do with the things they tell you, don't counter with what's in _your_ head - ask them how to ~replace~ what's in your head with what's in theirs!

Ed
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