The cat's out of the bag.

It has left the building.

We "Magicians" cannot protect our Secrets because we want to sell our Secrets to anyone who can afford it, plain and simple.

Not surprisingly, amongst those we sell to, some have totally no respect whatsoever for our Secrets thus we have all these free-for-all Exposure on TV, Youtube etc...

This is a fact. Imo...

My question is... What do we "Magicians" do now to survive in this new reality?

Magic will be fine. It's those who wish to sell to newcomers who may have to work a little harder to offer product to their customers.

Most who focus on bringing delight and awe to audiences can have what I know for the asking. What I can't give freely I will usually cite or offer direction to the inventor or secrets keeper in the matter.

Thanks for the reply JT... I actually agree with you on that.

And I actually understood everything you said, thanks for putting it on my level...

Anyone else care to chime in?

What new reality? This has been a perceived issue since Scott first tipped secrets in The Discoverie of Witchcraft back in 84. 1584.

Living with exposure is nothing new.

Agreed.

But not on this scale.

And I mean unsolicited Exposure. The "you didn't even go looking out for it"-type like the Masked Moron Exposures.

This is a new and much bigger scale of Exposure, imho...

There' no way to stop it, once it's out there it's out there.

By the way there was a website exposing and the creator managed to get it taken down, but it was being exposed by another website as well. It just shows no one can say for sure how many exposures are out there of the same effects.

That's my point.

It's viral now.

So, what do we do to keep the Magic alive?

magic is just fine. magic shops and non-creative performers may have some difficulties.

I really wish it was that simple JT...

I hope it is. Really.

However, from my experience, the "mystique" of Magic has been sucked by these wholesale Exposures... The "Magic" in Magic has been replaced by just puzzlement...

Anyway, it could just be me...

Ok here we go again. Let me help you. Exposure means nothing. NOTHING. Is the magic in your act the secret?

Let me explain it this way. The human body has about $5.60 in chemicals in it. It is darn near worthless. But we are more than the sum of our parts.

Magic is no different. Try to be more than just the sum of our secrets and we can rise above any sort of nonsense exposure issues. It means nothing.

How many times has the 3 shell game been exposed? Has it stopped street hustlers for a second? Really it is meaningless. It actually makes us look worse to cry about it. Nothing to see here, move along.

And it is anything but new. Hasn't put a crimp in magic yet, I doubt it will any time soon.



You must be watching the wrong performers.

When was the last time you got to take control of a city by confronting the mayor, pouring a canteen of alcohol on the ground and lighting it - informing him that if he and his people don't do as you want you will burn all their water?

Hmmm no yet? never? gee. too bad. someone tipped "fire water" to the rubes.

When was the last time you convinced the crowd that with just a touch you could sap the strength from the strongest person in the room. Robert-Houdin had some fun with that one. Also showing that direct exposure to ether did more than just make you feel woozy.

so, back to denial or will you at least consider the nature of your position on the matter in historical context?

So wrong on so many different levels...

Such as?

Yea I would sure like to see ONE level it is wrong on. Let alone SO wrong. (I mean are there degrees of wrong? I am not sure it even is subject to gradeation it is right or wrong. )

So go ahead explain why it is wrong. If the only reason people watch your act is that you have some sort of "secret" that they don't the problem is in the mirror my friend.

Okay, let's turn the question around: what if you have no secrets at all, why on earth would someone watch your magic act? Because of your compelling presentation? Your jokes? Because you're a nice guy wearing a tux?

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but in my opinion the whole point of a MAGIC show is, that the spectators don't know how the tricks work. If there's no illusion of impossibility, there's simply no magic. Period. Of course, as we all know the secrets alone don't make a good magic show. But without secrets, there is no magic at all and you're only fooling yourself. Interestingly, in my experience most laymen show more respect for the importance of secrets than some magicians. Most laymen I talk with don't know much if anything about magic. But the one thing they do know is: magicians don't tell their secrets. For them it goes without saying that keeping the secrets is rule number one for any magician. Funny people, those laymen!

First off can we agree that there is a difference in the thought that "exposure means nothing" and the idea that all secrets should be told? If we can not agree on the distinction, the conversation is pointless.

People ask questions like why isn't magic as popular as it once was? Hmmmm wonder if it is the attitude of magicians themselves which has caused this little problem.

Yes a magic show is designed to FOOL people, but also it must be entertaining. I think the fact that the exposure shows that everyone decries so badly are very poor rated and very poor entertainment speaks volumes as to the fact that secrets do not entertain.

So here is the point. The "exposure of a secret" should not have an impact on the entertainment value of your show. As I said the public has been fed a steady diet of fake psychics, con men, and 2 card monte operators yet somehow these people live thrive and survive. Ever wonder why that is? Entire organizations and police departments dedicated to the wholesale education of the public and yet BAMO THEY FOOL PEOPLE! Why do magicians not see the parallel?

People do not remember methods, and if they do a good performer dresses them up with a fancy new hula skirt and it is done. Why do you think soap operas can use the EXACT same story lines? Comic books and such? PEOPLE DON'T REMEMBER!

Like I said if the only reason a magic act is entertaining is that there is some "secret" involved then the problem lies within the act, not with some idea that "exposure" is causing the problem.

Yes it would be far less work to do our jobs if only we knew the deep dark secrets. But hey that is not the universe we live in. BUT think of it like this. The more attention you give to it, the more light it shines on it. What if the MM didn't have everyone decring him publicly? What if everyone sort of shrugged moved along and just grew as performers? What if it just got to the point where people thought that the MM was just a guy who could not cut it as a third rate magician, and had to do that to eat? Who would listen to him at that point? By crying and complaining, you elevate his status, thus giving him credibility and even MORE WORK!

The only reason he is even used is that some sort of goofy "CODE" is being broken and they are let in on some sort of SECRET! Really, take that power away from him and he vanishes.

Then again we could cry and complain and just make it so he has a job forever. That sounds like a much better plan.

So again, I am not saying he is doing anything right. I simply don't think that it is a big deal, till magicians make it a big deal. Why give these people power?



It also may be time to get past the whole tux thing as well. Just a thought.

For what it's worth, I bet Uli doesn't even own a tux.

As for the topic at hand, I have no real opinion other than to concur with Pakar that the cat is out of the bag, and with Jonathan that it doesn't really make a difference other than to those selling secrets, and with Danny that in the end it makes no difference at all whatsoever.

Intelligent, industrious human beings have always had recourse to...ah...uh...hm...logic to guess how "magic" occurs. The Internet makes it easy, to be sure. But libraries also made it easy. Magic shops made it easy.

Actually, it has never been difficult. Not since...well, I'll quote Payne: not... "...since Scott first tipped secrets in The Discoverie of Witchcraft back in 84. 1584."

Now, you're local witchdoctor might have a different opinion.

I know how the levitation at the end of beauty and the beast works, but I still cry everytime I see it.

I know how the dekolta chair works, and even though pahntom as a whole now bores me, that moment still sends chills down my spine.

By your logic I should not have enjoyed any of ricky jay's show, the amazing magician in france (whose name I am keeping a secret for now), Tamariz's one man show, or Copperfield's performances which I have seen maybe half a dozen times in the past 2 years.

If 'not knowing' was the reason people enjoyed good magic, then none of us would ever go to a magic show.

But we do.


Hmmmmmmm

Brad,
you're a magician. What I said, does not apply to you. You enjoy a magic show for different reasons than the average layman. Even if you get fooled, it's different, because you see things as a fellow practitioner, a colleague, an expert. I still remember very well the feeling of astonishment when I was a layman (I started doing magic at 22) who knew nothing about magic. It is very different now. If you become a magician, this is the price you have to pay: you'll never be able to feel the same layman kind of total astonishment again - you're standing on the other side of the fence.