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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The May 2010 entrée: Craig Petty » » Coin Magic » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Craig Petty
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In mu lecture I try to convince non coin workers than coin magic is the way to go

I have had so many magicians tell me I am responsible for them learning coin magic.

I was wondering if you do not perform with coins why not and is there anything anyone could say to convince you otherwise.

Craig
[url= http://youtube.com/c/slightlyunusualmagic
'Magic TV YouTube Channel ' by Craig Petty[/url]
Robert//Livingston
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I mostly perform with cards, and have tried branching out into coin magic. I purchased Bobo's "New Modern Coin Magic", and tried working through a some of it. I also learned the muscle pass. After practicing for a while on some vanishes, and a coins across routine, I went and performed my first piece of coin magic. Needless to say it didn't go so well. My classic palm wasn't developed enough, and my sleights were just not practiced enough.

After this experience I found card magic was more satisfying. Although I do the occasional "Coin Bite" on the street, that's about as far as my coin magic goes Smile

If you have a word of encouragement, or some awesome advice that would be great! I just usually find myself wanting to practice the classic pass over the classic palm.
"Being challenged in life is inevitable, being defeated is optional."

"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, and the lesson after" - Vernon Sanders Law
Craig Petty
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I understand where you are coming from and the problem is when you first start card magic is so much easier than coin magic. There are hundreds of self working card tricks where the trick is almost automatic. This gives you confidence to go out and perform knowing there is very little chance you are going to get caught. This is simply not the case with coin magic. Even a 'simple' effect such as 'Cigarette Through Coin' you still have to switch the gimmick in, hold out the regular coin and switch the gimmick back out again and it can get nerve wracking to say the least.

There is a solution however. Firstly start off just with vanishing a coin and reproducing it. This is pretty much as simple as you can get and watching how good the reactions are from the spectators will inspire you to learn more. Jumping straight into a multi phase coins across can be a little daunting. Borrowing a coin and vanishing it can get better reactions than any other routine with any other prop as long as it is presented and framed properly.

Secondly don't think that you have to be able to classic palm in order to perform coin magic. John Ramsey one of the best coin workers of all time never classic palmed a coin in his life. One of the most popular coin effects in the last 10 years is 3 Fly and you do not need to classic palm to do that. Sure learning a good classic palm should be a goal for every coin worker but without seeing the reactions you can get from coins it is hard to dedicate yourself to practice. As you said you would rather practice a classic pass as you know the reactions you can get from cards. So learn as simple coin vanish that just uses finger palm for example and go out there and perform it. Start simple and you will be amazed at the reactions you will get.

You'll be a coin worker in no time!

Craig
[url= http://youtube.com/c/slightlyunusualmagic
'Magic TV YouTube Channel ' by Craig Petty[/url]
Robert//Livingston
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Thanks Craig!

I bought 'Totally Out of Control' by Chris Kenner a while back (mostly for the card magic in there), but found some really neat coin effects too! Almost all of these (I say almost because 3 Fly is in there) had to have a very strong classic palm.

I'm definitely going to try my hand at coins again. The story of you having to learn coin magic in a few days to be able to teach it really inspired me.
"Being challenged in life is inevitable, being defeated is optional."

"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, and the lesson after" - Vernon Sanders Law
Cameron Francis
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I love coin magic and wish I had your creativity when it comes to creating coin routines, Craig. I think coin magic requires a bit more patience than card magic. Took me two years to get a decent classic palm. I think Sankey said this and I couldn't agree more: coin magic is more about attitude than anything. it's making those false transfers look casual. I think a lot of people struggle with that (including me).

The interesting thing, though, is that once you master a few simply coin moves, you can do loads of great coin magic. Sure, there are a lot of coin moves out there but there are also a lot of great routines which only require a few basic moves. A lot of your coin routines, while complete eye candy, aren't really that technically demanding. Well, not technically demanding if you're okay with coins, that is. Smile
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mrmagik68
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Craig,
First of all, welcome aboard the Café and thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to "hang" with us! I have to echo your words on the advice you gave Robert // Livingston with just starting out with a simple coin vanish/production.

When I first got into magic all I wanted to do was coin magic. And for me it started with a very simple coin production I learned. The method I employed came from an old (don't laugh) Bill Tarr video called Dazzle. All it used was a simple thumb palm and believe it or not I used to fool people with this production! I'd see it in their faces that they were fooled.

I do mostly card sleight of hand but I'm slowly starting to do some of my old coin routines. I'm not familiar with your work, what can you recommend for someone like me just getting back into coin magic? Thanks again!


Roberto
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puggo
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Craig,

I am not really a coin guy. I picked up Split Happens, and performed a spilt coins across for a while (the coin shower kicker from another of the routines was great). You have made coin magic very attainable.
I did not perform it for that long though.. I don't mind gaffs, but prefer using normal English coins where possible, as if you hand me a deck of cards, I can use it to perform, but I didn't like the idea of not being able to use normal coins.

Blackpool 2009, 3.30am and 'several' glasses of the old relaxation juice.. In walks Craig Petty to the basement bar and you showed me a simple 10p 2p transpo which blew me away.. I wanted to be able to perform stuff like that.
I have since learnt an ungaffed copper silver transpo (to impossible location) which really goes down well with small groups of people. I have started introducing and routining in a coin bend (Coinvexed2) which looks promising!

I am currently working on a short 1 coin routine to lead into the CS transpo, but it is not performance ready. Coins seem to be more unforgiving.

I would look forward to seeing a dvd of your ungaffed, 'not to hard' coin magic!

By the way, can you name a couple of your favourite non - Craig Petty coin routines?
Tryllejakob
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Hi Robert and Craig

This is a very good way to learn coin magic, if you have succes and like a little more, I will sugest to follow the vanish with a production from the Lapel (extra coin stuck with double tape under rigth Lapel if you are rigth handed) Then vanish it (easy since it stays there) then reproduce from spectators ear (from fingerpalm) and at the same time steal your card from the side pocket and cup it in left hand, place it over the coin in rigth and ask if they better like a card trick.

This little ending will tell you if they like more coins or you need to practice more.

Also as Craig say, learn the classic palm when you have learned a lot of coin magic, othervise you will waste a lot of time.

Hope it helps.

Best regards

Jakob Rasmussen

Please tale a look at my coinmagic on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/user/tryllejakob
Best Regards

Jakob Rasmussen
Denmark

www.magicshow.dk
arizona
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Hi Craig. Any advice you can give about getting in and out of back clips? that's always been hard for me to do. I want to do some of the coins acorss routines that require it but never have been able to get a hang of gettin in and out of back clips.
Craig Petty
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Thanks for all the feedback guys! And hello to you Mr Francis,I hope your well!

You make a really good point about my coin routines I try to make them as simple and direct as possible. I always try to find the best way to achieve the effect that I am trying to create. The best way might not be the easiest way (although a lot of time it is). Sometimes the most direct way to create the effect you want could involve the most complicated sleight. It just depends what you are trying to achieve.

Roberto, I agree. So many simple look down on a simple coin vanish and reproduction which is a shame as it can be so effect. Take David Roth' Flurry routine - it is a modern classic performed by magicians all round the world and in a basic form it is just a series of vanishes and reproduction done really fast. regarding which of my coin DVD's are good to get I love them all! Flipped Out is a great DVD which will allow you to get into work with the flipper, likewise Split Happens is a great DVD if you are looking to work with a Split Coin. For a beginner I think Attack of the Bag and Return of the Bag are the best DVDs. The special bag does all the work for you. My combining a few simple sleights with the gimmicked bag you can create absolute miracles. I applied the coin bag to most classic coin routines and made them a lot easier in the process in my opinion. Hope that answer your question.

Hey Puggo, thanks for the kind words. I actually remember the Blackpool in question I think I was wrecked having been on the dealer stand all day. The Copper Silver routine you mention has been my favourite impromptu effect to perform for years now. Its a 4 phase copper silver routine with just two borrowed coins. I have had performers ask me to teach that routine for years but other than teaching it to Russell Leeds I have always declined. However, it will be coming out on a project very soon (along with a whole bunch of no gaffed coin magic) so watch this space! I have been come known as a guy that only works with gaffs and that's probably because I love gaffed coins! However I have some rather special non gaffed routines I would love to share with everyone out there! Regarding other peoples coin work here is a list of some of my favourites

Anything ever published by Eric Jones
All of Curtis Kam's material
Anything by the New York Coin Guys (Geoff Latta, Daid Roth, Michael Rubinstein and Mike Gallo). There 10 DVD set is a must have for any aspiring coin worker
A special mention to Michael Rubinstein's Encyclopedia of Coin Magic which is excellent
3 Pieces of Silver by Rune Klan
A lot of Michael Vincent's material is excellent
John Carney - enough said!
Chris Kenner's book 'Totally Out of Control
Gary Kurtz has been mentioned to - he is excellent
Jay Sankey created some ground breaking concepts back in the day and is a great thinker
Shoot Ogawa has some great material
Paul Wilson is brilliant
Garrett Thomas has some great material as well.

There are probably others but that is the shortlist of who comes to mind at the moment

Craig
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'Magic TV YouTube Channel ' by Craig Petty[/url]
mralincoln
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Curious--when's the release date on your no gaff routines DVD?
ddeckmann
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Hi Craig, I'm not a coin worker, but I want to!

Since I work mostly with stage shows, I don't focus too much on a close-up repertoire. I do close-up generally for friends and self-promoting.

Although I do the Sorcerer's Apprentice (Miser's Dream) in my show, I don't know too much about coins...

I reject coins because here in Brazil and Paraguay coins are way too small.

Plus I don't have any sources... just a couple of IMS vhs from my dad.

The next month I committed myself to buy 2 half-dollars coin rolls, a couple of english pennies and chinese coins, an okito box and the "New Modern Coin Magic".

Then I'm set to learn some coin magic.

any advices?
Craig Petty
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Wow, loads of questions!

Regarding good places to learn coin magic Ddeckmann there are loads of DVDs and books you can go with. My favourite DVDs are

Michael Ammars Easy to Master Money Magic 3 DVD set

David Stones 2 DVD set on coin magic for beginners

David Roths Expert Coin Magic made easy

Michael Rubensteins Encyclopedia of Coin Magic 3 DVD set

All 10 volumes of The New York Coin Guys DVDs

My Attack & Return of The Bag DVDs.

The best books are

Deceptions in Paradise by Curtis Kam (not all coins but some great material)

Destroyers by Troy Hooser

Unexpected Visitor by Doug Brewer

Modern Coin Magic by JB Bobo

Coin Magic by Richard Kaufman

Pretty much anything coin related by Scott Guin

Regarding the back clip I would advise you pick up Revolutionary Coin Magic volume 1 and 2 by Jay Sankey. Jay is the master of the Goshman Tenkai Pinch and over half the material on these DVDs uses the move. Jay is a great teacher and you will easily learn the move from him. Plus you get to learn the best ever trick to use the pinch 'Mr Clean Coins Across'. If you are after more of a back clip instead of pinch the two best sources are 'Coin Man Walking' by Dan Watkins' and 'Up In Smoke' by Paul Cummings. Finally to learn the Deep Back Clip check out the book 'Expert Coin Magic' by David Roth or Coin One by Homer Liwag. Finally the best deep back clip coin trick is Coins in the Mist by John Carney in Carneycopia.

As for my non gaff DVD it should be out by the end of the year at the latest. The material will be harder than my other published work but nothing that can not do with a little practice.

I hope this answers everyones questions!

Craig
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'Magic TV YouTube Channel ' by Craig Petty[/url]
arizona
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Thanks for the suggetions. I will look into Jay Sankeys material and maybe finally get Carneycopia which I've been wanting to get now for some time.

DDeckman you should look into getting Michael Ammars Intrduction to coin magic. I would recomend that to anyone wanting to start doing coin magic or sleight of hand. There are over a dozen sleights taught not all ez beginner typs but some that are intermediate difficulty as well. There are several false tranfers vanishes and retention vanshes taught and many hold out moves as well and many working routines. Some the routines I use still from the dvd are 4coins coins across and a coin thru pocket routine. MA teaches and gives advices on everthing for sleight of hand from theory to performance adivces. It does not cost the usual 30, 35 dollars for the dvd its like 20 dollars I think. The sleights and moves taught are from notables like Roth, Bobo, Malini, Ramsey and many others. Theres no gimmicks taught so most the routines can be done with borrowed coins which is a big plus I think. Of course Modern Coin Magic would be good to study as well I just thought I'd let you, and others interested, know about this dvd I found it to contain practical sleights, rotines, effects and some sleight of hand lessons as well.
Cameron Francis
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Michael Ammar's Easy To Master Money Miracles is a GREAT set! The Flurry routine I do is basically the one Ammar teaches on the set with a couple of minor variations.

Dave Forrest is going to roll his eyes at me, but doing a good one coin Flurry routine with a Jumbo coin ending is highly magical to a lay person.
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Scott F. Guinn
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Hi Craig,

First, words cannot describe how honored I am to have my name included on the list in your last post. That's some pretty amazing company!

I do coin magic in my close-up performances, although I certainly wouldn't consider myself a "coin man". I do love coin magic, though, and derive more satisfaction great satisfaction from performing it and from the reactions from audiences. Because of some physical limitations, I can't do the stuff that a Curtis Kam or Reed McClintock can do. But strong, amazing, entertaining coin magic doesn't have to be ultrs-demanding from a technical standpoint. John Ramsay, as you mentioned, is considered one of the all-time great coin men, and most of his stuff is based on thumb palms and finger palms.

Cameron, I couldn't agree more, Forrest eye roll or no--a well-constructed flurry with jumbo coin finale, performed by someone who knows how to "sell" it, absolutely kills!
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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