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montz Special user 576 Posts |
Mass Consumption is a cannibal coins effect. It is worth noting that the aforementioned Sankey man also has a travellers routine with marked coins instead of cards.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
thanks montz,
If the routine has a good presentation it should play well. As to the """effect""" as stated at the top of the tread, the cannibal plot is a story that accompanies the vanish and possible reappearance of some cards/coins and so falls into the "vanish" catagory. The presentation falls into the "animation" catagory as the coins are imbued with one attribute of living things, that of 'eating'. Hope this helps. I feel very odd applying my background in mathematics to an algebraic approach to 'building' effects from the basic or atomic elements listed at the top of this thread. -Jon
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Chris Berry Special user 831 Posts |
You majored in mathematics didn't you?
Chris |
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leefoley3 Elite user Texas 402 Posts |
I think we often get caught up pondering why we do what we do. The answer? (it varies from magician to magician) but IMO we do what we do for laypeople. Sure getting one past another magician is schweet! ,but,where would we be if we only performed for each other? Where I live it's not everyday a layperson is approached by a magician. But, I live in a hick town. As not to offend, I'll admit, I'm a hick too. I just have a few things up my usually short sleeves!! We can't forget the ones that enjoy our art perhaps,sometimes,in a way, more than we do. Someone who maybe have only seen things on TV or on stage. For them just seeing a coin disappear right in front of their eyes is incredible. We are artist and entertainers. Not just a secret society looking for each others approval. But, what do I know?
In December of '06 I was diagnosed with a very rare cancer, Dermatofibrosarcoma Protuberans. One in a million people worldwide are diagnosed with this type of cancer annually. Sarcomas account for 1% of all cancers. Knowledge is power!
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
My younger brother used to taunt me with such outbursts as "Why'd he do that?" at the end of tricks. I eventually got the message.
It's over twenty years since, and I still smile when recalling a moment when after doing a coin vanish he laughed and yelled... "it went up his nose!" The things you can learn from "tough audiences" if you listen are amazing. And yes I did the physics math computers psychology thing in college. I tell people "I'm qualified to become a statistic and analyze it" when asked. Fortunatly I spent time with the film and acting and philosophy and biology and arts students. Since then I went for a background in art, literature and culture.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Schaden Inner circle Purgatory 1253 Posts |
It is hard to come up with new coin plots. I prefer totally new card routines but, I tend to work on common plots.
... I have never had a tough audiences. I tend to have a bad temper and will go off if a spectator isn't respectful. Lee |
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-06-28 07:09, mike gallo wrote: I'm sorry but I can't hang with that even when qualified. Presentation determines effect. If I have a coin in one hand and it moves magically to the other the effect is the transference of matter. If I introduce a solid surface between the hands the effect becomes one of penetration. The method may be exactly the same but by the implication of presentation (and only presentation) the effect changes entirely. The nineteen effects listed in The Trick Brain are catagories of effect. Not effects per se. Audience don't know about these catagories except in the broadest sense and probably don't care anyway. If you were to perform David Roths "The Ruler" and John Kennedy's "Translocation" one after the other I doubt a layman would tell you that you'd repeated an effect. However, if you did "Translocation" and "Shadow Coins", which are two different effects by our reckoning the spectator would probably not see much of a difference. just my 0.02. bill |
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
I suppose someone ought to say it, just in case this thread wants to get off track...The catagories listed above are meant to organize, not limit. The fact that you can list, in very general terms, the types of plots possible does not in any way imply that you have exhausted the possibilites of any.
Indeed, the point of "the Trick Brain" was to provide a mechanistic approach to discovering new effects and methods, not to close the book on them. It's been said before--there are only n plots in magic. (I leave the exact number to your imagination) There are only 8 notes to a musical scale. There are only x recognizeable dramatic plots in theatre. Giving up on coin magic just because you have such a list, at this level of abstraction, is akin to giving up on English because there are only 26 letters in the alphabet. Everything I know about life, I know because of magic. Case in point: I think it was Jon Racherbaumer who pointed out that Fitzgee was merely suggesting a specialized application of an ancient school of philosophical thought that had already attempted to apply the same system to all of human discourse. I suppose it's not too late to give up on humanity, though. Hmmmmm...
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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Catbacker Regular user Manhattan, KS 145 Posts |
An infinite number of monkeys at typewriters given an infinite amount of time will eventually reproduce the entire works of William Shakespeare. Hmmmmmm.......
Creative thought (along with opposable thumbs) gives us the ability to create a vast array of new and interesting magical effects. If you feel that coin magic has stagnated, show a four year old a coin trick then ask him to show you one. The ideas my son has come up with are amazing. I just need to figure out how to turn that half dollar back into his little brother. A final question: If a magician drops a coin alone in the woods, does it make a sound? If it does, is the applause he hears the sound of one hand clapping? Scott
"Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong." Dennis Miller
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Chris Berry Special user 831 Posts |
Quote:
The catagories listed above are meant to organize, not limit Exactly what I was trying to express the whole time. So simple yet I couldn't think of how to say it! Chris |
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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
umm i hope nobody jumps on me for this...Ok this topic is very intense it seems. Maybe there are limited plots to coin magic, but the fact of the matter is, the appeal of it is that it is so raw. It's here now it's there or it's silver but now it's copper or chinese. Laymen don't care about a plot at that point they just want to see it again...fortunately for us there are many different approaches to the same basic effects in coin magic that make it seem different each time. Coin magic is powerful becuase the effects are seem to look so simple and "magical". Usually if the trick can be described by a layman in one sentence you can usually bet it's strong. I have to throw in Translocation as the ultimate coin trick of all time...it's just toooo strong. Now i don't disagree with anybody here, i just think that we get too wrapped up in giving coin magic weird plots when you can just make it vanish and reappear somewhere else without saying a word. You guys all know what i mean i'm sure. Card magic usually has to be explained where as coin magic doesn't usually need that indepth explanation. Just my thoughts.
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Ty Argo Special user Columbus, Ohio 525 Posts |
That's one of the great things about magic- You can have 20 different methods to produce any one given effect or you can take one method and create twenty seemingly different effects with it!
Think of how many times we've seen a coin vanish, yet, for some reason, we are intrigued by a new method of doing it. Does it look different to the audience? Probably not. But by having multiple methods, we can mix and match and throw off people who are "burning" our hands. The magic world continuously redresses old methods to create new effects. Think of how many different, wonderful illusions rely on the b*** principle, yet it consistently looks different to a laymen. It doesn't matter if it bores us. As long as our magic entertains them, we will have a job (regardless of having only "7" effects). Thank you. I will now take a small bow.
Dyslexics UNTIE!!
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
.... about those monkeys...
a few monkeys, given a few minutes, will destroy many typwriters and soil most much of the paper. WShakespear has nothing to fear. For a more cogent discussion, have a look at the story about a 'universal library' by Asimov. I seem to recall it from a collection called Fantasia Mathematica edited by Clifton Faidman. And now back to laying creativity to rest in a coin plot. Would this include a coinbox too? I was on the phone with reed describing an idea on a coin vanish. It uses a common resurant thingie and about two minutes later reed demonstrated that creativity is not a linear or permutory phenomena. I was describing the use of the 'thingie' to make a coin vanish more explicit. Reed said he 'heard' what I was describing and followed by repeating what he heard 'me say' and described something quite different and more magical... not using a coin to start with! And that is how magic happens. while the academics try to model the world with logic and arrithmatic, the artists consider how 'addition, subtraction, multiplication and division' become: ambition, distraction, uglification, derersion and washing extra Catagories have thier place. I find them less than inspirational for my creative process. I borrowed two or three ideas from PKDick and posted them in another thread. Do these ideas fit the catagories? Maybe as 'transformation' though that word has its own ambiguity issues. 7 +/- 2 items in the buffer tonight
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Chris Berry Special user 831 Posts |
Talking to a friend of mine just now, I was analyzing my routine for the Magic Castle Junior Try-outs coming this September.
I am of course doing all coins. The effects start with a coin production, a middle effect, and a coin vanish. Sticking to the little ol' rule of 3 pretty much. Now here is what I am wondering: Why is it that coin magicians (at least the guys I talk to) always feel the need to have this sort of structure? With the coins appearing, a middle effect (or a few middle effects) then the coins vanish? Why not just take the coisn out of your purse or pocket, perform the magic, then put them away? I understand that the productions and vanishes are more magical (and look better.) But it seems to be 'over done.' Maybe it is because I've seen some bad performances where someone pulls the coins out of a purse, does their magic..then at the end vanishes them. How is it bad? Well if you pull them out of the purse shouldn't you stick them back in the purse at the end? Vice versa, I have seen people produce the coins, then when they are done they stick them in their pockets or in the purse at the end. Those two situations are bad performances to me. If you are going to do a production then vanish the coins at the end. If you are going to pull them out of your purse or pocket, then put them back in at the end. FWIW, Chris |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Chris, you might want to expand your circle of friends with whom you discuss magic.
Why do some people use quaint props and have quaint ideas? Sorry, I don't know or care. Not too many guys I know carry a purse so I can't help with that one. I do know that you don't have to worry about producing or vanishing the props if you borrow the coins. It would be very cool to vanish a marked coin and have it appear back in the owner's pocket.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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carlb New user Seattle 77 Posts |
Well, I have always felt that the production/<insert cool middle part here>/ vanish structure was just asthetically pleasing.
Of course, if I really could pull coins out of the air I would probably put them in my pockets... =) I have to admit though, Jonathan, that I and most of the magicians I know that do coins magic, do carry coin purses. The funny thing is that this thread is titled "coin plots" and I would have expected more discussion about story and context. No offense to anyone, but (particualary those I have tremendous respect for) but can't coin magic be more than "taking a bit of imagination" and making it jump from hand to hand? I have been finding myself more and more attracted to "bizzarre" plots/themes/stories that provide context/meaning/theme to the magical effects and am interested in how any of you may have adapted/utilized coins with that kind of presentation. Anyone? |
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youngdanf New user 45 Posts |
Depends on the moment. For my biggest fans (my two little boys) I made up a routine for their favorite bedtime story, Jack and the Beanstalk, that use mainly coins, but also beans, silk, and TT. Also I have on coin routine with a Forbidden love theme (kind of like Romeo and Juliet) with a copper and silver coin.
Most of time though I don't do all of that. Really depends on who the magic is for... |
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