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bjharris
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I recently discovered an online magic site called "MasterYourMagic.com". After logging in and watching some of the free videos, I quickly realized that the site's creator is teaching a lot of magic that isn't ethically available to him to teach. It seems like there are videos being purchased right off of popular sites like Theory11 & Ellusionist, then he's just turning around and teaching the tricks to lay people with no credits or mentions to the creators of the effects.

I'm less interested in just pointing a finger, and more interested in discovering how are issues like this handled? It seems that a lot of new websites are popping up that teach lay people magic, and am curious what is necessary or respectable in terms of "paying respects" or even "compensating" the creators of the effects people teach.
gaddy
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It's a good thing to call people out for this sort of behavior. Thank you.
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
Mr. Mystoffelees
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I think this is despicable, but after beating my head against the wall on the subject of exposure, I have concluded that the majority of those who post on the Café either support exposure or think it is of no consequence. Brave new world...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Dan Bernier
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I think you have a point Mandarin. With all the new routines based on old tricks being put on the market, and marketed to anyone who is willing to pay the cash for it, it shouldn't be a surprise that there is so much exposure today.

When you get to the root of the problem, I personally believe it's do to all the available material and magic DVD's that are marketed, sold, and easily obtainable by anyone to buy.

I don't think that most of the people that are exposing magic are actual performing magicians. I believe they are the ones directly influenced by the marketing, and don't actually work as a magician.

In short, when someone makes a product available to everyone, and markets the heck out of it, all to make as much money from it as possible, you have to expect this kind of thing to happen.

That's why I laugh when I hear, "After many years, so and so is giving back to the magic community by selling his routine that he has built his reputation on." The truth is, he's selling it because he needs the money. A sad truth, but a truth none the less. (There are some exceptions though)

I also think it's funny when you hear a creator/magician say that if exposure continues to happen they and others will stop producing material to sell, and we'll all be sorry for it.

I buy pretty much almost everything that is marketed, and I know my wife wouldn't be sorry one bit.(lol)

I have quite the extensive library of DVD's. Some of them I have bought just for the entertainment value. Some of them I've bought merely out of curiousity. While others I bought because I was searching for new things to add to my close-up.

As long as magicians keep selling DVD's that are marketed to the general public, and making them easy to obtain by anyone, exposer will be a fact of life.

I don't think the majority of the members here agree with exposure, or think there is no consequences of it. I think most are no longer clear what exposure is anymore. There are too many double standards in the industry now because of greed.

I am of course speaking just from my personal opinion. But I think it makes some sense.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2010-05-29 17:33, bjharris wrote:
I recently discovered an online magic site called "MasterYourMagic.com". After logging in and watching some of the free videos, I quickly realized that the site's creator is teaching a lot of magic that isn't ethically available to him to teach. It seems like there are videos being purchased right off of popular sites like Theory11 & Ellusionist, then he's just turning around and teaching the tricks to lay people with no credits or mentions to the creators of the effects....


As to what's legal and not - provided they are not offering someone else's copyrighted material - the actual video sold by someone (who owns the copyright) - they are within the law.

Ethically? let's not go there. Way too many vested interests prevent that discussion.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Dan-

My opinion on supporters of exposure flows solely from personal experience with posts on the Café. No doubt there exists a silent majority, but if they oppose exposure, their silence amounts to tacit support of those who see no harm in it.

Actually, I am beginning not to care anymore. My career of jousting with windmills is coming to a close, thank God.

Your point about not knowing what exposure is anymore is very valid. Reading the pseudo-intellectuals debate this topic is really quite funny. Sort of like watching the dream team take apart an obvious fact and turn it inside out- they didn't even need the glove.

Things cycle, and magic had it's day in the sun. Now, I think we are headed back to the role of court jester...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Dan Bernier
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Quote:
On 2010-05-29 23:05, mandarin wrote:

Reading the pseudo-intellectuals debate this topic is really quite funny. Sort of like watching the dream team take apart an obvious fact and turn it inside out- they didn't even need the glove.



(lol)

I couldn't have said it better myself.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Dan Bernier
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The guy who runs and operates the site is Mason McClain. The membership apparently looks to be free until you sign up.

Once you become a member, you discover that only a few things are free. To view most of the content you have to pay to upgrade your membership.

This fellow indeed shows you how to perform many commercial tricks that are being sold on the market through Theory11, Ellusionist, etc.

However, watching some of his perfomances, I can see why he has taken this unethical root. He is absolutely terrible! Seriously, this guy is really bad.

I did sign up for the free membership so I could get an inside look at what it's all about. I wanted to investigate what he was exposing.

After signing up, this is the email he sent me.

Hey Dan Bernier,

You've now had a chance to explore some of the content in the Underground
Membership. You are well on your way to becoming a master of illusion.

How do you like it?

I would love to hear what you think about it. Just reply to this email and
let me know.

Learning magic is one of the coolest things I have every done and I have
so much fun doing it for people and getting massive reactions. I don't
think that there is any better feeling than blowing someone's mind and
having them beg you for the secret.

Make sure that you never tell them the secret to the trick either! If you
do then you lose your power and they aren't impressed anymore.

In fact when I first started learning magic I was a bit disapointed.

You may be experiencing that disapointment too. All of the magic that
used to seem so amazing may start to seem less impressive now that
you know how to do it and the secret is usually quite simple.

Don't worry about that though. Trust me that will go away and
will be replaced with the excitment of entertaining people.

If you're anything like me, now that you have gotten a taste of the
secrets of magic then you probably want more and more. When I started
learning I bought every book and DVD I could find.

There were two problems I had though...

1. It's very very hard to learn from books
It would take me like a week to learn 1 trick from a book and I wanted to
learn fast.

2. Learning magic is expensive.
Once I ditched the books and started buying DVDs I could learn tricks very
quickly but each DVD only had one or two tricks and they cost me $30.

that's exactly why I started MasterYourMagic.com. So I could teach people
magic through high quality videos without them having to spend a fortune.

Now everyone can learn at least 20 tricks in my membership for free!

If you want to continue your magic training like I did then I have two
more products you're going to love and I've made it so you can get them for
less than the price of a dinner for two.

My "Abracadabra" Magic Training DVD
This DVD explores four categories of magic. Card tricks, money tricks,
telekinesis and magic with everyday objects. It's only 29 bucks and has
over 20 magic tricks on it.

Check it out here:
https://masonmcclain.infusionsoft.com/link/39cd778ce0/200b20

My "Secret Society Membership"
Are your ready to get serious about magic and start getting the biggest
reactions you've ever seen? With the Secret Society membership you get
at least 5 new premium tricks every month and you get access to all of
the Secret Society Members only content in the membership area.

If you want to upgrade to "Secret Society Status" go here:
http://www.masteryourmagic.com/upgrade/

I'll be sending you some more cool stuff about magic soon and even some
more tricks that you don't have access to yet very soon. So keep an eye
on your inbox.

See You Soon,

Mason



Here are 4 ways for us to stay in touch:

Join me on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/addfriend.php?id=1087468444

Join me on MySpace
http://www.myspace.com/reloc.cfm?c=2&id=......3d6ab04f

Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/masteryourmagic

Follow the MasterYourMagic.com Blog
http://www.masteryourmagic.com/magicblog/



There are four ways you can let this guy know what you think of him. Smile
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
paynow
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Quote:
On 2010-05-30 12:09, Gospel Dan wrote:

However, watching some of his performances, I can see why he has taken this unethical root. He is absolutely terrible! Seriously, this guy is really bad.



Terrible, Dan? That sir is an understatement, if that awful routine with the water bottle in the intro video is any indication.

Look at some of the quotes from users of his site:

Quote:
WOW! You are giving away stuff in this membership that I had to pay a lot of money for at online magic shops and some things I’ve never even seen and I’ve been doing magic for 10+ years.


COOL! NEATO! He says at the end of his introductory video on the home page that he will see us "on the other side". Hopefully from the other side of the bars at Sing Sing where he'll be sent for stealing. Wishful thinking.

Quote:
Within 5 minutes after joining I was able to totally freak my girlfriend out. That was a week ago and she is still begging me to know how I did it.


Yes, magic is so great for freaking people out after five minutes of concentrated studies. I wonder why Dai Vernon never spoke of that.

Quote:
I’m 72 years old and joined so I could do some tricks for my grand children when they visit and was very impressed at how easy these trick were to learn and perform. You’ve just bumped me up to favorite papaw!

Thanks for the great stuff!


YAWN.

I can't believe these people. But yet, they exist and it seems the only way to stop them or at least put a dent in them is to ignore them completely.
bjharris
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Hey guys...thanks for all the replies. This quote sums up everything: "WOW! You are giving away stuff in this membership that I had to pay a lot of money for at online magic shops and some things I’ve never even seen and I’ve been doing magic for 10+ years."

Yeah, that'd be a good clue, huh?

I actually am beginning to spend some time teaching simple magic that's in the public domain, to lay people, like kids interested in magic, so this topic has been on my mind lately. I also make a living performing full-time professionally, and currently have positive relationships with builders, creators, etc. I don't want to damage that, or my main source of income as a professional performer. But it'd be great to have some sort of "filter" in place to be sure that I always remain ethical when teaching material to currently non-magicians.

Currently, all ideas are coming out of "Anyone can do magic" type books sold at normal bookstores. Especially the really old ones.

Thoughts?
alpha alex
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Ooh man
just saw the introduction to the site I wont sign on, don't wanna get into those spam mailing list
what a ******

he is teaching stuff from ellusionist for free
could ellusionist demand them to put their stuff down?
mindguru
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There are many sites like this, the problem is even though the copyright owners can get them pulled. It takes time and in some cases money, They would probably go broke chasing them all down.
Scott Fridinger
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Quote:
On 2010-05-30 13:58, paynow wrote:

Quote:
I’m 72 years old and joined so I could do some tricks for my grand children when they visit and was very impressed at how easy these trick were to learn and perform. You’ve just bumped me up to favorite papaw!

Thanks for the great stuff!


YAWN.

I can't believe these people. But yet, they exist and it seems the only way to stop them or at least put a dent in them is to ignore them completely.


Hey now, don't get down on and old grandpa that wants to do something cool for the grandkids. Sure, there may have been other ways to go about it, but he most likely was just trying to find something to bring him and his family closer. I would applaud him for caring about his family, and if I new him I would send him a few Dover books to put him on a better path.
www.JustGreatMagic.com
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Servante
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This assumes, of course, that Grandpa exists. Smile

-Philip
funsway
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Hey, Mandarin -- keep whacking away at that windmill and I'll greatfully hold the reins of your donkey, even if I can't ride it. While I have a slightly more middle ground view than thee on the exposure issue, I value your stand to balance against those who think exposure is irrelevant or inevitable. Please don't ever give up just because the "great unwashed" don't care.

For me the key issue is accountability -- in everything in life. There are situations in which teaching magic to another is appropriate and even necessary -- with both parties agreeing to the "conditions of contest." I also feel that "priming the pump" is sometimes necessary and that giving a 10 year old a magic set may be a "life benefit. In the same vein (perhaps vain) manner, I will provide any requesting magician on the Café' a magic solution once. Any further support is dependant on the quality and timeliness of feedback. Naturally, I only give aways my own creations. Is that exposure?

The real problem is that what is being exposed is "tricks" rather than "magic effects" and those gobbling up the free crumbs are depriving themselves of the real joys of engaging an audience in a meaningful way. Perhaps my view is biased by considering that most of the tricks being given away are not magical at all. One fear is that magic will be reduced to a "ho-hum" demonstration or "sensory assault" rather than an art. That will not be the result of "exposure" but of "irresponsible exposure" -- not the same thing at all.

The solution may be simple (personal ethics). Never teach a person a second magic effect until he has mastered the first. In the statement "I want to be a magician" the word "want" should be an active verb. If you just want to be a person who does tricks to fool people, then I guess all you need is a wallet.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
CardWiz
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Quote:
On 2010-05-30 12:09, Mason McClain wrote:


Make sure that you never tell them the secret to the trick either! If you
do then you lose your power and they aren't impressed anymore.



Fail.

CW
People have been calling me "Yu" lately. I don't know, must be Chinese.
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