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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Which cups not to buy....... (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dale Houck
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Dakota J Magic at Saint Cloud, FL
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There was a post on here not too long ago dealing with which cups to buy. The flip side of that coin might be interesting as well: which cups not to buy. Here are some candidates:

1. Don't buy aluminum cups unless they're a legitimate collector's item, e.g. the vintage Sherms mini/micro cups.
2. Don't buy brass cups unless they're heavy enough to use as a step stool if you need an extra three inches to reach the top cabinet to get the peanut butter.
3. Don't buy cups in copper using the same guideline as #2.
4. Don't buy cups made in India unless they're vintage Tayade.
5. Don't buy Paul Fox "style" cups unless they're Paul Fox cups.
6. Don't buy plastic cups unless they're vintage Adams or Royal and you just like to have some cups the grandkids can play with.
7. Don't buy wood cups unless you're strong enough not to cry when you drop them on a concrete floor.

Just some thoughts.......
Magic is where you find it.....
dsalley13
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I bought the Chinese made faux Paul Fox cups as my starter set. I still have them and they were wonderful to use to see if I could adapt to cups and balls work. They served me well for being under $100 cups and still do when I need a bigger set of cups than my PF minis.

I agree totally with the rest of your list of pointers. I sure don't want to cry if I drop my Viking/Excelsior turned mahogany chop cup. I know I would, but I'd source another one. Darn that would hurt. Ack!!! I don't want to think about it!

I want Mr. Guinn (sp?) to to adopt me and leave me his pretty cups in his will! :o)


dsalley13
Dale Houck
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Dakota J Magic at Saint Cloud, FL
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I confess I have never really seen the Chinese faux Paul Fox cups in person. It just seemed to me that if you were going to spend $90 on a set of cups you should go ahead and get the real deal from RNT2 or second hand on ebay. A nice set of stainless steel RNT2 Paul Fox cups sold last week on ebay for only $125. If you like them, that's all that is important.
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dmueller
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Out of curiosity what exactly is wrong with aluminum cups?
Dale Houck
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Dakota J Magic at Saint Cloud, FL
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It's just my opinion, is all. I think they look and feel cheap. That said, they made some Foxy II cups in heavy aluminum with the CNC process and I'm going to get me a set someday. I think they'll still look and feel cheap compared to the copper ones made the same way, but I'd just like to have a set in my collection. If you like to make a little noise and bang your cups together aluminum just doesn't sound like music to my ears. Aluminum will scratch easier and dent easier as a rule. Like I said, just my opinion.
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yin_howe
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My 1st set of cups was Uday alluminum combo cups. They were affordable for me at that time. My journey in the cups and balls road started from these cups.

I have a set of RNT2 Mendoza Alluminum. And I like them. They are "heavy gauge" alluminum (I have no idea what heavy gauge is, but I'm guessing it's thicker). They have a nice weight, although still lighter than the copper JES Squatty's.
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djkuttdecks
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The Classic cups in aluminum from RNT2 are very "innocent" looking and have all the great features of a C&B set. And the Ramsay cups that RNT2 put out with Pete Biro HAD to be made of aluminum (or cardboard) to be functional. Any other metal would not really work with the John Ramsay routine. However, I agree that cheap aluminum cups are a ppor choice when you can get a copper starter set from Morrissey.

I have a set of Paul Faux cups and I would agree not to get them only due to copyright of the design. I hate it when I see a magic shop selling these as "paul fox" cups and someone buys them.

As for plastic cups, I kinda enjoy the CNC'd Derlin cups. If you are loading something that isn't soft they talk a lot less.

-Lee
Dale Houck
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Dakota J Magic at Saint Cloud, FL
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Yin_howe, if you like them, that's what matters. According to the RNT2 site, the aluminum Mendoza cups weigh about 2.8 oz each compared to 7 oz for the copper. For me personally, I'd want the copper. Heavier cups just feel "right" to me.
----
Quote:
On 2010-06-06 22:50, djkuttdecks wrote:

As for plastic cups, I kinda enjoy the CNC'd Derlin cups. If you are loading something that isn't soft they talk a lot less.

-Lee


Yes, I like the delrin cups too. They feel like toys to me (expensive toys), but I do have the White Beauty, Black Beauty and El Royale sets.
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Bill Palmer
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There are a few really glorious aluminum cup sets. I have a set of Auke van Dokkum aluminum cups that are really, really nice.

I also just got a set of cups that belonged to Ali Bongo. They are gold anodized aluminum Davenport cups.
"The Swatter"

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yin_howe
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Quote:
On 2010-06-06 22:51, dhouck wrote:
Yin_howe, if you like them, that's what matters. According to the RNT2 site, the aluminum Mendoza cups weigh about 2.8 oz each compared to 7 oz for the copper. For me personally, I'd want the copper. Heavier cups just feel "right" to me.


Of course I also prefer Copper to Aluminum, but they are good cups for those on a budget or are starting out in CnB. Smile
"Talent without passion is talent wasted.."
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Dale Houck
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Bill, those sound like legitimate collectors items to me, and I agree those would be great cups. Ben Stone had a set of aluminum cups that were chromed that were unique to me. They were from Mid-America Magic, the company that Joe Stevens, Ed (can't spell his last name, but he was from your state of Texas) and Ben started many years ago. I think his only surviving son has those now. They were super light though, and definitely felt like aluminum.
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Bill Palmer
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Ed Tamborello was the third party. I saw him about a year ago at his wife's funeral.

Those Ben Stone cups were neat, because they were the first ones that used the principle that Jedinat uses for his chop cups. They were combo cups.

The main problem with aluminum cups is their weight. But there are a few that feel pretty good in hand.
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MickeyPainless
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I have the Foxy II Combo alums as well the RNT2 Ramsey's and they both have a very nice feel to em!

MMc
gaddy
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I can't really say I agree with any of those statements 100%.
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
rannie
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I have used aluminum cups for the longest time. YES the el cheapo cups. The very same set that got me started. Also the same set that I used to win many competitions. It is also the same cups that got me booked for shows and lectures. I am not saying that this is the way to go. All I am saying is that there are no hard and fast rule... evidence that aluminums are a no no.

It was only later in my magical life as a performer that I started owning coppers and brass. Now I think I have way too much! I can now see the difference. The weight factor definitely makes some moves easier.

A cheap performance would certainly make an expensive cup worthless. At the end of the day.... the magic is still in the hands of the magician.

My personal rule when buying... "DO NOT buy what you don't really like" If you are "iffy" about a set... cahnces are... you don't really like em! Like, want and need are words to consider. Also ask these questions...1) Is it just nice to have? 2) It is beautiful....? Can I handle them well?

If you are a serious collector... go ahead and keep buying... as long as you know what you are getting. If you are a performer who makes a living out of doing magic... you can easily see in advance the returns of your investments.

We all have different tastes and feel for our props.

Only the owner of the cup can be the judge of its worth... in beauty and in function. Many say that CNC cups have no soul compared to hand made cups. As a craftsman, I totally agree... as a performer... I can honestly say that I can put soul even on a starbucks paper cup set.


Mabuhay and Cheers from Manila!

Rannie
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."

-Rannie Raymundo-
aka The Boss
aka The Manila Enforcer

www.rannieraymundo.com
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Dale Houck
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Dakota J Magic at Saint Cloud, FL
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When one speaks in absolutes, invariably there are those who take exception and invariably there are legitimate exceptions. I think there was a collective "gasp" across the country when Johnny Ace Palmer pulled out his silver plated cups on the Letterman show. Bill Palmer identified them as Gary Animal Gazzo cups and they were beyond beautiful. I think there would have been a collective "gasp" as well had he pulled out a set of aluminum Uday cups. The gasps would have had different meanings, however.

I believe that magic is where you find it and it can absolutely be found in a set of Starbucks cups. There is no doubt in my mind that Johnny Ace Palmer could find magic in a set of Uday cups. Still, I'm glad he didn't.
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cupsandballsmagic
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Stevie Ray Vaughan played a guitar for all of his career that most most people would have thrown in the bin but he could make it sing. Soul is not just in your equipment, it's in yer fingers and heart....
professorwhut
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I doubt laymen give a hoot about our cups.
After much soul searching about a signature, I decided not to have one.

TG Pop [aka ProfessorWhut]
cupsandballsmagic
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I have no doubt what so ever! I know they couldn't give a flying fig! Smile
It is only us magicians who care!

Friend's have cringed when they asked how much some of my cheaper cups were, they cannot comprehend that I would pay £35 for a set of 3 cups, I dare not tell them what some have cost!

Bri
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2010-06-07 07:28, cupsandballsmagic wrote:
Stevie Ray Vaughan played a guitar for all of his career that most most people would have thrown in the bin but he could make it sing. Soul is not just in your equipment, it's in yer fingers and heart....


Stevie basically built that guitar, though, just to fit the way he played. I've done the same thing with banjos.
Imagine what people think when I tell them about the HMS Victory cups!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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