The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » What if a spectator wants to shuffle the cards? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
Bob1Dog
View Profile
Inner circle
Wife: It's me or this houseful of
1159 Posts

Profile of Bob1Dog
I tried continuing an 8-year-old thread in Penny for Your Thoughts, but wasn't getting the responses to the question; so I'll try here where the card folks lurk. I am experimenting with the Si Sebbens stack and asked myself: What if someone demands to shuffle the deck? Not being a cardician and only wanting a few good card effects in my act, and deck switches, false shuffles, and other more sophisticated methods of handling the question don't work for me. How about a little audience management, like "Sir/Madam, in this modern world we live in, while I would be pleased to allow you to shuffle any of my decks, I would not be able to finish the performance with it and would have to discard the deck. You see, I'm a germ freak and I don't know where you've been in the last half hour." It seems to me that you've managed the audience without having to go through all kinds of other outs, especially if you're only doing one or two card effects in your act. I'd appreciate your opinions, one and all. Thanks...Bob
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
Cohiba
View Profile
Special user
Michigan
749 Posts

Profile of Cohiba
That sounds like a joke, and brings attention to the fact that you don't want the cards shuffled. I wouldn't use it.
smudgedj
View Profile
New user
Cochabamba, Bolivia
82 Posts

Profile of smudgedj
Well, you could say 'No', and carry on with what your doing. Or you could try 'People have come to see me with cards not you shuffling!' Or, and this is what I would do, say 'You certainly can, let me finish this and then it's your turn' Then hand the cards over and talk him through Up The Ante by the Café's very own Captain Smiffy.

http://www.magicshop.co.uk/p3382/UP_THE_......nfo.html
Bob1Dog
View Profile
Inner circle
Wife: It's me or this houseful of
1159 Posts

Profile of Bob1Dog
Quote:
On 2010-06-28 17:40, Cohiba wrote:
That sounds like a joke, and brings attention to the fact that you don't want the cards shuffled. I wouldn't use it.


Thanks Cohiba, but it IS a joke and I DON'T want the cards shuffled. Does any magician want anyone shuffling his cards in a stacked deck? But I respect your opinion and will think on it some more.

Posted: Jun 28, 2010 10:20pm
Smudgedj, I like your approach a lot! Very good responses. I think I'll keep them for future use if needed. I like Up the Ante too... thanks for sending the link. Best, Bob
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
BarryFernelius
View Profile
Inner circle
Still learning, even though I've made
2532 Posts

Profile of BarryFernelius
Quote:
On 2010-06-28 17:21, Bob1Dog wrote:
I tried continuing an 8-year-old thread in Penny for Your Thoughts, but wasn't getting the responses to the question; so I'll try here where the card folks lurk. I am experimenting with the Si Sebbens stack and asked myself: What if someone demands to shuffle the deck? Not being a cardician and only wanting a few good card effects in my act, and deck switches, false shuffles, and other more sophisticated methods of handling the question don't work for me.


Bob,

A deck switch is not difficult to do if you use a motivated action to cover it. Consider the following scenario: You bring out a deck, and you make a point of allowing a spectator to shuffle it thoroughly. You perform a card effect or two. Now, you need some other prop from your pocket. In the process of obtaining that prop, you perform Tommy Wonder's deck switch. (Technical difficulty level: dead easy!) Set the switched deck on the table so that you can perform the effect with the prop, applying a bit of time misdirection. Finally, you put away the prop, and you're ready to work with your stacked deck.

Why do you find this to be 'out of the question'?
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
Bob1Dog
View Profile
Inner circle
Wife: It's me or this houseful of
1159 Posts

Profile of Bob1Dog
Hi Barry,first, thanks for your insight here. I'm not an experienced performer, in fact I only had my first one last week! So I'm still in a learning mode for lots of stuff. You make the deck switch sound within the realm of my ability, it's just hard for me to focus on all the stuff I'm learning at this particular point. I'd like to become a better card handler but for now, I only use ID and the heirloom wallet (heirloom and 1 in 52) which uses the Si Stebben stack. I'll have to make a note of Tommy Wonder's Deck Switch, thanks for that tip. You've given me something to think about and I'll give it a go. Thanks! bob
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
Steven Keyl
View Profile
Inner circle
Washington, D.C.
2544 Posts

Profile of Steven Keyl
The deck switch Barry mentions is really deceptive. Two comments here. First, if you are going to ring in a stacked deck, then you may want to learn another trick that doesn't rely on any stack. Have the spectator shuffle before and after the impromptu effect then proceed with the deck switch. All they will remember is that they shuffled the cards several times so they will not be able to backtrack to a stacked deck.

Second, if the spectators are convinced that the cards are mixed then they won't likely ask to shuffle. Treat the cards casually. When you take too much care to ensure that they stay all together it will arouse suspicions. Another great way to alleviate suspicion is to learn a simple false shuffle.

As you are using the Si Stebbins stack I will recommend a great false shuffle from the book 'Si Stebbins Unplugged' called the Overhand Cut Shuffle. This is a terrific little book in that it contains about 15 tricks you can do with the Si Stebbins stack and contains additional subtleties like some false shuffles. It only costs about $7 and I highly recommend it.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!

Come visit Magic Book Report.com!

"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
Bob1Dog
View Profile
Inner circle
Wife: It's me or this houseful of
1159 Posts

Profile of Bob1Dog
Thanks Steven and Barry, I'm gonna give 'em both a shot....thanks for the help. Bob
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
Dennis Loomis
View Profile
1943 - 2013
2113 Posts

Profile of Dennis Loomis
I am convinced that if someone asks to shuffle the deck the ONLY thing you can do is to let them do it. No matter what clever things you might think of to say, the fact remains that there is going to be suspicion on the deck. So, if you are going to learn tricks with a stacked deck, also learn two or three good tricks that you can do with a shuffled deck. My rule for myself is that if someone asks to shuffle the cards, I always allow them to do it. ALWAYS.

Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
Bob1Dog
View Profile
Inner circle
Wife: It's me or this houseful of
1159 Posts

Profile of Bob1Dog
I guess I REALLY need Tommy Wonder's Deck Switch! thanks! bob
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
Vlad_77
View Profile
Inner circle
The Netherlands
5829 Posts

Profile of Vlad_77
Quote:
On 2010-06-29 21:29, Bob1Dog wrote:
I guess I REALLY need Tommy Wonder's Deck Switch! thanks! bob


Hi Bob,

Please trust Barry Fernelius, Steven Keyl and I on this. Perhaps I can ease you to it further by ASSURING you it is NOT a sleight. As a mentalist, you understand as well as magicians the need for motivated action. As Barry has already stated, the switch is motivated and "dead easy" is an understatement. Actually I find it quite humorous that a lot of magicians fret over a deck switch. A card mechanic needs to fret of course, and his methods vary WILDLY from ours through necessity, and a vast majority of THEIR deck switches ARE very difficult.

Back to Wonder, I will tell you just how dead easy it is: I have actually, under the guise of seeking as Barry noted, a Sharpie pen or what have you, retrieved the pen AND rang in the cooler but from a DIFFERENT pocket!! I don't suggest you do this, but, it DOES work even if your pocket management is awry. Why does it work? The answer my friend is right up the mentalist's alley: pure psychology. Remember the reason WHY you are going into your pocket. Remembering the reason makes YOU focus on getting the pen for example. If you think THAT way, you will not telegraph the switch. I hope this makes sense. The attention of the audience is on the prosaic fact that you are looking for a pen. The deck, psychologically, becomes unimportant.

One last note of help from The Master, Tony Slydini. Slydini remarked that the reason magicians have trouble with switches is that they break the action into two step thus fumbling and therefore telegraphing. So, let's apply this to a deck switch. The wrong psychological process is in the following thinking (I am obviously creating something here to illustrate the performer's INTERNAL monologue): I am putting a deck of cards in my pocket, then I am going to switch it for the other. Slydini's argument is this: I am going to my pocket for a pack of cards." I am oversimplifying the internal monologue for illustrative purposes.

Sorry, one more idea hit me, and this from the world of mentalism. The notion is to redefine a deck of cards as a set of 52 objects. What you have accomplished through this ruse is defusing the deck as a familiar tool for "tricks." I do realize the debate rages still in mentalism concerning the use of cards. However, many of the GREATEST of mentalists USED cards and still use cards. Remember that you are a mentalist. ANY fancy manipulation of the cards is the kiss of death, because by doing so, you ARE now sending up the red flag of.. CARD TRICK!! So, my brother and sister magicians may not agree with what I am about to write, but, I would suggest you do NOT learn a false shuffle at all. Just learn Wonder's Deck Switch, or, if you want, I would be happy to provide you with other intriguing approaches as well.

Wonder's deck switch however is a thing of beauty. If you are a breathing person, you can do this Smile

Ahimsa,
Vlad
BarryFernelius
View Profile
Inner circle
Still learning, even though I've made
2532 Posts

Profile of BarryFernelius
When you have a motivated action that's not related to the deck, a deck switch is easy. The switch appears as part of an 'in transit' action (as Ascanio used to say.) Even though it's counter-intuitive at first, you'll discover that 'in transit' actions are psychologically invisible.

With that said, Dennis has a very good point. If someone asks to shuffle the deck, I almost always let them. Otherwise, there will be suspicion.

Note that if you handle the situation the way that I outlined it, the spectators will have shuffled the deck before you switch decks. Almost every time, this will eliminate the desire to shuffle the deck later. If, on the off chance, they still want to shuffle, let them do so. Just make sure that you've rehearsed the trick that you're going to do after the cards are shuffled!

Just for fun, I performed a couple of sets at the Magic Castle last night. (I was at the table that is close to the bar outside of the Parlor of Prestidigitation.) I alternated between the two decks that I was carrying, one stacked and the other in no particular order. I did the deck switch four times during the evening. No one suspected a thing!
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
S2000magician
View Profile
Inner circle
Yorba Linda, CA
3469 Posts

Profile of S2000magician
Quote:
On 2010-06-30 12:19, BarryFernelius wrote:
Just for fun, I performed a couple of sets at the Magic Castle last night. I alternated between the two decks that I was carrying, one stacked and the other in no particular order. I did the deck switch four times during the evening. No one suspected a thing!

Scamp!
magicdano
View Profile
Regular user
Danny Habel
145 Posts

Profile of magicdano
Robertoi Giobbi has a pretty smooth deck switch which he describes in the July issue of Genii.
Vlad_77
View Profile
Inner circle
The Netherlands
5829 Posts

Profile of Vlad_77
I really just do not get the fuss over deck switches. I am NOT addressing this to the OP whose forte is not cards.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we do much bolder things than deck switches, yet there seems to be such a mystique about them and a mistaken sense that they are difficult. It really makes no sense to me. We are not trying to ring in an ironman in a stakes game.

A certain Dean Dill effect scared a lot of people because of its boldness, but, it works BEAUTIFULLY. (Yes, this mention IS on topic)

Anyhow, just a more concise repeat of my longer post. BUT, if any one here knows Fred Becker, ask HIM about the sheer b**** of an effect we created called "Killer". The thing works, hits hard, yet I will wager my magic library that many would not try it thinking it too bold and too obvious. He tells me that HIS students have the same reaction that mine had about this effect. They think it will never fly past an audience, yet, I have been doing this thing for quite a while and people truly gasp. Our respective students do change their minds after trying it out. Is it worth publishing? Nope Smile And precisely BECAUSE magicians would cry foul because the method is SO obvious - to magicians that is.

Do not be afraid of deck switches. They are your friends. Love them, and send them choccy for St. Valentine's Day.

Ahimsa,
Vlad

Posted: Jul 3, 2010 11:31pm
Barry,

I REALLY enjoyed your post. I wish more people would read it.

All,
Barry works the CASTLE. Re-read what he did and how many times!

Ahimsa,
Vlad
Bob1Dog
View Profile
Inner circle
Wife: It's me or this houseful of
1159 Posts

Profile of Bob1Dog
Barry and Vlad, sorry it took me so long to get back in here.
wow, you've motivated me man! I sincerely appreciate your suggestions and will give Wonder's switch a shot. Now you have me WANTING to try it while before, indeed, I was shy about it, since, again, I'm not a real card guy. You've been a tremendous assist here and I thank you. Best, Bob

Quote:
On 2010-07-03 19:54, magicdano wrote:
Robertoi Giobbi has a pretty smooth deck switch which he describes in the July issue of Genii.

Vlad, are you speaking of Blizzard? I have it and never use it because it scare's the heck out of me! Maybe I'll dig it out of the pile and revisit it. Thanks again! Bob

Quote:
On 2010-07-03 19:54, magicdano wrote:
Robertoi Giobbi has a pretty smooth deck switch which he describes in the July issue of Genii.


Vlad, are you speaking of Blizzard? I have it and never use it because it scare's the heck out of me! Maybe I'll dig it out of the pile and revisit it. Thanks again! Bob
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
Vlad_77
View Profile
Inner circle
The Netherlands
5829 Posts

Profile of Vlad_77
Bob,

First, you are very welcome! Barry Fernelius I should add - although you already have noticed - is a GREAT motivator as are so many here on the Café.

Second, yes I am referring to Blizzard. Believe me my friend, it scared the bejeezus out of me too! But, the directed attention is so well motivated that it really is nothing to worry about.

As I had mentioned, I do some mentalism but I am no mentalist. Yet, I thought I would make a comment about some of mentalism's methods: just as some card and other close up techniques scare you, so too do some of the methods in mentalism Smile So, do not be surprised if I come seeking some advice from you Smile

Right now I am working a bit with Richard Osterlind's excellent Transparent Forces in conjunction with some Annemann stuff as well as Luca Volpe's very fine Ultimate Chair Test. There are bits of Luca's routine that give me pause, but, that is a subject for "Penny for Your Thought".

Glad you are eager to try Tommy Wonder's Deck Switch. I think you are going to have great difficulty in hiding you smirk the first time you do it for an audience Smile

Ahimsa,
Vlad
juggernought
View Profile
Regular user
200 Posts

Profile of juggernought
If they want to shuffle: let them shuffle. If you don't it undermines your work so far. If you could really do magic, it wouldn't make a difference if the deck is shuffled.

If you say they can shuffle it very casually as if you don't mind at all, sometimes they won't even bother shuffling. If they do, most of the time, they shuffle overhand. This never mixes the cards well as there will be blocks still in order. Spread through the deck under the pretense of trying to find a selection and reset order. Practise this a few times- you should be able to get very quick (10-20 seconds).

Or, if they riffle shuffle once, just go through and cull all the appropraite cards so they go back in order while showing the shuffled deck.

As mentioned, a deck switch is another option. Always keep a back up.

If they shuffle the deck to the point where a quick cull wont work, then just be prepared to do other effects which don't require a stack. You must be flexible for the audience.
Bob1Dog
View Profile
Inner circle
Wife: It's me or this houseful of
1159 Posts

Profile of Bob1Dog
Vlad, you're the kind of person I admire so much in the Café. Eager to help, eager to share and eager to be so positive when folks are scared of something. The Deck Switch and Blizzard are going to be new things for me to have a go at. Thanks to you my friend! Dean even mentions in his instructions that the move is so bold, yet so deceptive. I tried it once and only once, on my wife a few years ago. I fooled her. But it still scares me. Not now. Thanks for the encouragement Vlad! Best, Bob
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
Failed Magician
View Profile
Inner circle
Still working on the DL even after made
2100 Posts

Profile of Failed Magician
Interesting reading, guys. Thanks a lot for sharing. I haven't any problem from my students asking to shuffle the deck.

But sometimes they want to put their chosen and signed card different than where you want it to be. I sometimes use Bluff Pass by Paul Le Paul, BUT sometimes they went: "Ok but I want to put this further down the deck."

What will you say to that? Sorry if it's out of topic, but for me, it's the same as a spectator saying: "Lemme shuffle the deck." on your stacked deck.
Magic comes through perception. -HS
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » What if a spectator wants to shuffle the cards? (1 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.25 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL