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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » What if a spectator wants to shuffle the cards? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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kosmoshiva
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Bob1dog - to your original question, and if you're working without another deck to switch, you could always hand off HALF the deck to be shuffled, while you shuffle the other. Depending on which stack you're using, you still have the advantage (a Stebbins stack wouldn't be as good as a memdeck in this situation). Lots of really good effects can be achieved from this starting point.
Don't forget to breathe.
Bob1Dog
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Another good idea! Thanks kosmoshiva!
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
nlokers
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You could always go into an effect like shuffle bored where you just say "ok shuffle, but take one half and flip it upside down first". Spot the bottom card and your ready.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-06-28 22:15, Bob1Dog wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-06-28 17:40, Cohiba wrote:
That sounds like a joke, and brings attention to the fact that you don't want the cards shuffled. I wouldn't use it.


Thanks Cohiba, but it IS a joke and I DON'T want the cards shuffled. Does any magician want anyone shuffling his cards in a stacked deck? But I respect your opinion and will think on it some more.

I think what he was trying to say was that too the AUDIENCE it will feel like a joke (and thus not a legitimate reason for them to not shuffle, leaving them still wanting to shuffle) and it makes it apparent that you don't want the deck shuffled.

Also, there are several beautiful things about an overhand shuffle, and even a riffle shuffle, that make them relatively simple to undo, as covered by Tamariz in Mnemonica.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
iluzjonista
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For me it will be very suspicious to refuse giving the deck to the spectator to shuffle and this will ruine the trick. If spectator will ask for the deck to shuffle and not get it he will automatically think that somethink is wrong with cards. Swith is one option and another is just be prepared for the situation like this and do some other tricks like ambitious cards.
Rocketeer
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1. "I work alone"

2. "Have you ever seen a stage production of Tom Sawyer?" (Probably not.) "Well let me give you a tip. If you ever do, don't leap onstage and tell them you want to play Becky Thatcher for the rest of the performance. It's frowned upon.

"This is neither a puzzle to be solved nor a contest to be won. What I am presenting is some experiments in parapsychology as an entertaining evening. If you can't enjoy it as such may I suggest you leave quietly and let the rest of the folks enjoy themselves?. If you wish to stay I must insist that you remain seated and watch quietly. Thank you."
I'm selling my hardcover autographed limited edition copy of Jerome Finley's "Thought Veil"

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goatears
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At the begining or the trick I usually do a false shuffle and a face up ribbon spread (if the stack allows). I do it openly and casually like I have nothing to hide. No one has ever stopped me. As long as I keep up the pace and make it look natural. Granted, this aproach only works in more formal ocasions though my family will always want to shuffle the deck. So I don't use stacked decks very often for them.
gdw
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Ignoring trying to teach them respect, but then again, we are presenting them something that is often EXPLICITLY an interactive form of entertainment, so I reserve this for those that actually grab at things, the best response is, to let them.

If you are not prepared to do things that don't rely on a stack, then you shouldn't be using a stack. I know that sounds backwards, perhaps I should say you shouldn't be using a deck of cards.

Also, one of the STRONGEST things you can do with a stacked deck is destroy the stack. Some of the most fooling approaches are based off of the Gilbreth principle, which allows a spectator to shuffle, and even if you don't take advantage of it, if you've just performed an effect or two that utilize a stack, imagine how much stronger the rest of your set becomes, as well as the stack effects you just performed, if you let them shuffle for the next effect.

They will never suspect that you WERE using a stack if you can clearly perform with a shuffled deck. Also, they may even remember events out of order and think they shuffled before the stack effects.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Bob1Dog
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Rocketeer, I like your approach! It's honest and takes the heat off you, while putting it on the skeptic. In a post somewhere, maybe in this thread, someone else said, "I like to practice safe magic," I liked that one too. Y'all have some great ideas.

Separately, GDW, Captain Smiffy's Up the Ante works off the Gilbreth Principle (I think!) allowing the deck to be shuffled and it's very strong! I'll admit, it confounds me because the Gilbreth Principle in itself is confounding; but it works. Not a math guy here, but it's mind boggling to me. Best, bob
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
gdw
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I just had an idea. Have a second deck, and when someone asks you if they can shuffle, bring it out, and give it to them, and let them keep it for the performance.

"Here, you can have your very own deck to shuffle." You can call back to it through out. Asking "how's that deck coming?" etc.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Bob1Dog
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Y'alls got the creative juices flowing; GDW, that last one is so-o-o-o good!
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
Chad Sanborn
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There is not a single joke that you can use that will counteract this. No matter what clever line you use, in the end, you have to let them shuffle. Using clever
lines may actually have the opposite effect and make you end up looking like a jerk.

They are cards and shuffling is naturally inherent to them.

But if you are ENTERTAINING and not just doing trix, then you probably will never
have to worry about someone asking to shuffle the cards.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-09-11 13:02, Chad Sanborn wrote:
There is not a single joke that you can use that will counteract this. No matter what clever line you use, in the end, you have to let them shuffle. Using clever
lines may actually have the opposite effect and make you end up looking like a jerk.

They are cards and shuffling is naturally inherent to them.

But if you are ENTERTAINING and not just doing trix, then you probably will never
have to worry about someone asking to shuffle the cards.


What he said. Jokes may get you somewhere, but they will never eliminate their desire to shuffle.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Cohiba
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I agree with Chad and gdw. Any type of logic you use to try to convince them that they don't need to see the cards only further cements their belief that it would ruin your trick, which to them, kills the magic. At that point, they know how it's done (trick deck, cards in order, etc.). Whether they're right or not doesn't matter, and isn't the point. If you're creating magic, you have to eliminate all the possible methods of achieving what you're doing.

If you are performing correctly, this question will very rarely (if ever) get raised. If you want to come across as a good magician, you hand them the cards for a shuffle without hesitation if they suspect something. And you have an out, whether its a trick with a shuffled deck, or a deck switch back to your stack, or whatever.
Acecardician
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I've always said what smudgedj said, Yes, they can shuffle it, as soon as I am finished! I joke a lot. So I could say, then you will mess up the order!
Actually my opening effect has one odd card on the bottom of the deck. So I don't let them shuffle. I can't remember being asked to shuffle in recent years, but I have had people want to see and handle the cards. I think they think more of them being tricked cards. So that is when I tell them, "let me finish and then you can HAVE the cards". It is a quick opener and then I can hand out the deck. I carry 3 decks, so I can move on if I have to. I have always gotten the deck back.

I found out when I do my effects in a straight forward manner without hesitation, I get less requests to see the cards or shuffle. If the trick is flowing, and interesting, they usually want to see the outcome without interrupting me.

Another thing to say when they want to shuffle, is "it is not that kind of trick".

ACE

Posted: Sep 27, 2010 11:21pm
Or... just SLAP their hands if they want to shuffle.
Tell them that you don't come to their job and ask to examine or shuffle their shovel!

ACE
Piqsirpoq
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In addition to blind shuffling and occasionally letting an audience member cut the deck, you may pre-empt the request to shuffle the cards by simply 'showing' the cards at apropriate times Smile

One such, rather innocent looking, method is the casual "drop spread" found in "Green Northern Lights magic" booklet by Lennart Green (this is where I came across it, but surely there are countless other sources). Another simple method is ribbon spreading the cards from left to right thus making the indexes hard to read (as they're upside down for the audience), though this probably doesn't fly with an obviously sequential stack.

Thoughts from a novice.
Bob1Dog
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Gotta tell y'all, after learning Up the Ante, I now have a routine where I actually MAKE the spectator cut AND shuffle the cards.....great effect thanks to Martyn Smith.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
captainsmiffy
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Thanks Bob1Dog! Here's to baffling them! And the marvellous thing is, despite publishing it, I have not yet come across anybody performing this on my patch....so it's still a unique effect in my book!
Have you tried 'Up The Ante' yet?? The ultimate gambling demo....a self-working wonder! See the reviews here on the cafe.
Vlad_77
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I shall offer a SOUND solution to the vexing problem of the pesky speccy wanting to shuffle the pack.

I am Italian, so I have hired my cousin Vinny "Gaspipe" Merlino. When the speccy wants to shuffle, cousin Vinny "gently" advises against it.

I hasten to add that this works WONDERS for kid show workers and Vinny is making the nut every week. Smile

Seriously though, if a deck has been handled and freely shuffled throughout your act, a DS is you best friend if you don't have Vinny. With Martyn's effect, or Henry Evans' Perfect Triumph, the spectator DOES shuffle anyhow.

*Grins

Vlad
Mr. Mystoffelees
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TOTALLY agree with the DS, Vlad! I have to admit, it took me about a year to be able to use it in performance. What got me started was my 14 year old grandson doing blizzard and frying the specs. Right in front of them with the innocent look he can have he openly did the move and NOBODY ever saw it!

I bought a couple of shells and the DVD next day. Well worth learning!

Jim

p.s. Vlad the italian??? Smile
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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