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jskalon
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OK. I have a question about 3 of the zip/cable tie escapes.
Is anyone familiar enough with Kenton Knepper's Black Tie, Aaron Smith's Poor Boy Zip Tie Escape, and Joe Monti's Original Thumb Tie to give a comparison without exposing the method? Any preferences. I was interested in buying The Poor Boy, but got side tracked. Now before I purchase one I am interested in any feedback you guys could give me. I would buy all three if I could swing it. Those days are gone (at least for now).
Thanks,
Jack
Jack Skalon

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jay leslie
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Tthere are other twist tie escapes, the Red Tape Escape and thumb stocks or thumb cuffs too.

What I'm really asking is about your timeline, technical needs and style and will you work with materials appropriate to that particular routine/escape or just want to stick to the three you mentioned?
Roslyn
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Poor Boy isn't just a thumb tie type escape. In fact you can apply this to numerous ties placed on the arms, fingers and thumbs.

If you're looking for simply a thumb tie then also consider Losander's Chain Breaker. A thumb tie using electrician's tape. It's more of a magic effect than an escape, but I like it.
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Harley Newman
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It's all in how you play it.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

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jskalon
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Thanks everyone.
I am really interested in the idea of using the zip ties. As far as other methods, I have the Jaspernese Thumb Tie, Jim Ryan's method, and the methods in Tarbell.
Aaron Smith sparked my interested with zip ties with his Poor Boy. Like I said earlier, I was going to get it and kind of got side tracked. Now Joe Monti has his version out. My main requirements are to be able to do an un-gaffed in/out routine.
As far as the regular (string/rope/etc) thumb ties, Jim Ryan's (to me) is the most simple and direct method.

Jay, I don't have a specific time line, this is something that I would like to add to my arsenal. In the past I have used the shackles as an in/out effect and have also performed Siberian Chain escape. While I am open to all methods, the zip tie is what I am really after. I prefer a comedic approach and an un-gaffed method.
Again, Thanks to everyone for the input.
Jack
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Harley Newman
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Poor Boy is pretty straightforward, uncomplicated. Kenton, as always, has some good ideas, and the handling is a bit more...complicated isn't quite the right word...involved.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

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jskalon
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Thanks for the info Harley.
Also, I assume everyone knows I am talking about the ties that the police are using as handcuffs and not the garbage bag twist ties.
I know the garbage bag type twist ties will work for both Ryan's and Jaspernese ties.
Jack Skalon

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dave_matkin
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I didn't realise Kenton was involved with the poor boy.

I have in the past had converstions with Wolflock (where ever he be now) and his work on zip ties is pretty cool! HUrts like hell - but then you have to act less!
Harley Newman
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Dave, Kenton has his own approach. Poor Boy is simpler.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

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dave_matkin
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Hey I am easily confused remember KISS me!

OR KISS for me rather ....

Poor boy is simpler (i have Kentons back tie and thought that was fairly "simple" or am I not reading between the lines enough?

My interest is perked!
DavidKim
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I also pretty interested in using zip ties for my escape show. However, I am also interested to know about the different of the zip ties escapes in the market now.

Well, I got a few questions in mind, hopefully someone can help answer using the poor boy's method and Kenton's method.

1) I pressume both must be striped by the audience. Which one can provide a "In Out" routine easier, which makes the performer focus on the comedy part than trying to do the escape?

2) Method wise, which one provides more method to escape if one of it doesn't work?

3) I thinking of zip tying onto an object (like a railing or door handle), will both methods still work?

Some information will allow me to think further into putting it into my routine.

Thanks for all the help in advance.
Roslyn
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I can't remember Kenton's method, I read it once many years ago and then sold it to Dave. But I did buy Poor Boy recently and can say that unless you're a complete fool it won't go wrong.

It could be used for an in/out routine and you could also be tied to a post (for example) and still escape.

The Poor Boy has some great subtleties that convince the specs that all is fair.

You're not limited to just one tie either. You could use many ties all at once for a spectacular tie escape.
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dave_matkin
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Hi David ....

First off ... and no offence meant BUT …. Darn me if you’re English is nearly as bad as mine! Smile But not quite! Smile LOL

It’s a little stilted but I think I know where you are coming from.

Quote:
On 2010-07-15 03:34, DavidKim wrote:
I also pretty interested in using zip ties for my escape show. However, I am also interested to know about the different of the zip ties escapes in the market now.
Thanks for all the help in advance.


Can’t comment on Poor boy but in relation to Kenton’s Black tie

Quote:
On 2010-07-15 03:34, DavidKim wrote:

1) I pressume both must be striped by the audience. Which one can provide a "In Out" routine easier, which makes the performer focus on the comedy part than trying to do the escape?


Not entirely sure what you mean but be stripped – you can do it wearing clothes or named (Kenton’s that is). Unless you don’t mean strip as in take off clothes.

If you mean pulled tight by the spectator then Yes Kenton’s can be done up by the spectator and it is REALLY tight! Blood stopping so …… and still easy to get out of and back in to (if you really want to go that way).


Quote:
On 2010-07-15 03:34, DavidKim wrote:

2) Method wise, which one provides more method to escape if one of it doesn't work?


You can’t not get out with Kenton’s method unless you really mess it up – similar to what Ros said about poor boy. If you mess it up you don’t deserve to be an escapist!





Quote:
On 2010-07-15 03:34, DavidKim wrote:

3) I thinking of zip tying onto an object (like a railing or door handle), will both methods still work?


YOU could do that kind of penetration idea. If you are after the “solid object through binding” kind of effect you may also want to look at:-

• Jay Lesley’s psychic penetration last item on this link: http://www.cannonsgreatescapes.com/spectacular_2.html
• Losander’s chain breaker (FANTASTIC)

Hope this helps a little?

Take care Dave
DavidKim
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Yes Yes,

That certainly help, after reading your post, I do realise how bad my english is. LOL!! That's the problem with Singlish in Singapore, too much chinese and english and malay, you ended up with junk english.

But I try my best to correct myself thanks.

I certainly brainstorm on the ideas more, now that I have much more visual aspect of what you guys meant, and I meant Strapped. not Stripped.. LOL!! Sorry for the bad english really.

I not really into "magic" kind of escape, other than the comedy in out routine. For a finale of the show, my hand will be binded to a handle outside of a box, (I inside the box), so 1 hand is binded while the other can access the outside hand with another hole on the side. So basically, I cannot see the binding process.

So another quick question will be, must I have vision on the binding process on either of the methods available?
Roslyn
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You don't need to see the ties in poor boy to be able to escape.

You would have to work on a means of covering the ties so that the method isn't exposed. Usually this is achieved with your own body. But since you're in a box and the audience can only see your hands then you can't do this. Also you would want someone to keep an eye on your spectators since you won't be able to manage your spec quite as well from inside a box.
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DavidKim
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Totally agree, that is the hardest part in terms of doing the escape. Since I cannot see them, it is very hard to control them from inside. Rest assured my assistant will be outside to keep a lookout.

But accidents do happen and blood and bruises will appear.. Zzz..
Roslyn
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Without exposing the method, poor boy needs you to be in control during the binding process for it to work effectively.

Done right you hear the ties tighten as well as see it and the specs can tug and check it... But only if you make the conditions correctly.
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safuto
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Great Topic.
I've been doing the Thumb Tie routine for 25 years with Zip Ties and the routine replaces my strait jacket. It's that strong. I am finally releasing my personal routine on DVD August 1st. Please check out http://www.thumbtie.com for info and video clip.
I hope serious "thumb tiers" like it Smile
Love all your posts.
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Roslyn
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Hey!

Saw the performance on your site, looks good!

Can you use this method to restrain other body parts (wrists, ankles etc...) or is this solely a thumb tie?

Cheers,

Ros
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DavidKim
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Nice.. That is great.

But I wondering about situation where like you are doing for carnival. Where getting an audience up can be an issue.

I have perform for places that audience are scarce, and have to get my assistant up to do the work. Like working in a dead city. LOL!!
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