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walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts |
If you check the advertising of the magic shops or magicians selling used stuff, seems like they are very careful not to expose the secret, i.e. if buying a set of linking rings they never show you the key ring, if you are buying a Zig-Zag you do not see the inside, if buying a gaffed deck all you see is a normal deck of cards and so on.
My question is, why in the world everybody that sells a set of cups and balls show you three cups and four balls?? Walid.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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HerbLarry Special user Poof! 731 Posts |
It's a spare. Like the tire in the trunk. Those balls are small and round. No telling where they will wind up. That extra ball can keep you from having to by a new set by approximately 4 months, YMMV.
You know why don't act naive.
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Showing a fourth ball would be showing the buyer what is there. Showing them a gap in a ring would be showing them something that is not there.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Jim Wilder Special user Birmingham, AL 954 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-07-19 13:12, walid ahumada wrote: So 4 balls is the secret? |
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walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts |
I undestand you guys, however I just don't like it, besides in my opinion a picture with 3 cups and 3 balls looks better, I don't see the need to put the 4th ball in there.
Walid.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
I think walid has a point here...what other effects are sold showing a hidden prop so brazenly?
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
TT?
Magic is a vanishing art.
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Walid,
For what it is worth, I agree with you. All the debate seems to me like a rationalization: if magicians use their heads, dealers are not selling props which must be properly exposed. Dealers are selling illusions with the secrecy concerning their methods. When an art dealer sells a painting he is not listing the canvass, the colors, the brushes, the frame...
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
If you don't show all four balls, some magician will call in and want to know if it comes with four balls-- "The routine I want to do uses four balls, but the photo only shows three. Does it come with only three balls? Can I order a fourth one?"
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HerbLarry Special user Poof! 731 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-07-19 20:50, Whit Haydn wrote: :applause:
You know why don't act naive.
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walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-07-19 20:50, Whit Haydn wrote: Honestly I don't see the problem, any (most) company will be happy to answer your questions, I believe it's call cutomer service. Walid.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-07-19 20:50, Whit Haydn wrote: If a dealer gets this type of reaction, it's the nicest thing that can happen to him. Creating a personal link with your customer is the best thing that can happen to a sales person. In fact billions of $ and € are spent in advertisement to get people to make the type of call that you refer to. If the dealer is a sales person like Mark Mason, for sure he will love receiving this type of call (and sell more than what the person was placing the call for). Is it that different in magic? Leave them wanting more? I may not be a top professional magician, but I have solid reasons (based on business experience) to support the commercial arguments in favor of showing only three balls. Now how many people ask about the C&Bs ignoring the number of balls involved? Pure three balls routine are rare enough to be mentioned as particular. How many calls to ask if the cups are combo cups, the balls mag***ic, etc? This is the dialog that any good sales person wishes to originate. I'm not stubborn but stick with Walid and "three balls"
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-07-19 20:50, Whit Haydn wrote: If a dealer gets this type of reaction, it's the nicest thing that can happen to him. Creating a personal link with your customer is the best thing that can happen to a sales person. In fact billions of $ and € are spent in advertisement to get people to make the type of call that you refer to. If the dealer is a sales person like Mark Mason, for sure he will love receiving this type of call (and sell more than what the person was placing the call for). Is it that different in magic? Leave them wanting more? I may not be a top professional magician, but I have solid reasons (based on business experience) to support the commercial arguments in favor of showing only three balls. Now how many people ask about the C&Bs ignoring the number of balls involved? Pure three balls routine are rare enough to be mentioned as particular. How many calls to ask if the cups are combo cups, the balls mag***ic, etc? This is the dialog that any good sales person wishes to originate: "Leave them wanting more" applies to commercial relationship as well. I'm not stubborn but, having considered your point of view both on a commercial and magical secrecy basis, I stick with Walid and "three balls"
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts |
I had not thought of that issue, but it might be a good marketing trick.
Walid
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Would showing the gap in a key ring generate questions as whether or not that ring was broken?
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-07-20 12:45, Michael Baker wrote: Noup, but if you show seven ring set some magician will call in and want to know if it comes with eight rings, "The routine I want to do uses eight rings, but the photo only shows seven. Does it come with only seven rings?? can I order a 8th one?? Walid.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-07-20 13:10, walid ahumada wrote: Yes, but assuming they already know how the trick works. The same arguement would apply to the C&B. The only time when questions might arise would be when someone does not know the basic requirements, and how it is TYPICALLY sold, or if the item in question is an after-market sale, when exact contents might come into question. Showing a fourth ball does not tip a secret to the uninitiated any faster than they could find it themselves in a book. It is a ball. Period. It is not the same as say, showing the load chamber of a dove pan. It is not a hidden device. A person would have to understand the concept of the one ahead principle to even begin to put two and two together. It is more likely that magicians who display their C&B sets with only 3 balls on display would eventually be showing someone a trick with three dusty or sun bleached balls, and one that is pristene. The Professor's Nightmare always shows 3 separate ropes when they are of differing sizes, but always held in a group when equal. That in itself speaks volumes, but only to those who understand the concept. To all others, it is a fact that is overlooked.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
I was making a joke about magic customers and the nature of selling magic...just trying to shift thinking to the dealer's point of view.
Sometimes you are ***ed if you do as well as ***ed if you don't. |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Well, my original post was a joke also, and look where that got me.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts |
Sorry I did not get the jokes, my apologies to you all.
Walid.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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