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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts |
Cyberqat, the way you say you are back to amateur and were at semi-pro level at one point makes what you say more valid in my eyes. Much more than if someone was saying they were pro all the time and treating us lowly amateurs differently.
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
I prefer Part Time Pro to Semi-Pro and when asked, which is rarely, I freely admit that I do not generate my primary income from the performance of magic.
The other difficulty with presenting yourself as an amateur is price. My fee's are equal, if not higher than my full time competition. You need to present yourself in a professional manner and have a professional level performance to justify the asking price. also if you look at the definition of professional Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\ Function: adjective Date: 1606 1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace 2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football> 3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot> — pro·fes·sion·al·ly adverb The definition is broad enough to include those who do not generate their primary income from their chosen discipline
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
Yes Payne. I already explained that. Please see above.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-08-12 18:04, Cyberqat wrote: I did. I have a fundamental issue with one of your statements though. you said "In magic we have an unusual situation in that we have two distinct types of professionals. We have those who get paid but do it as a side-job or "paying hobby" and those who really dedicate their lives to it and depend on it for their livelihood." You assume that those who haven't made the decision to go full time as not dedicating their lives to the art. I am a magician. Even though I do not earn my income from the performance of magic I still classify myself as a magician. Always have, always will. What I do between 9 and 5 is simply a means to an end. It in no way forms my identity. It's simply what I do to keep a roof over my head and food in my cupboards. I've met a few full time workers who could care less about magic. It's simply the way they have chosen to make a living. They have no passion for the craft. It's just a job for them. For some what you make your living doing has nothing to do with their identity or passions.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts |
I had said about different meanings of professional previously. I am an amateur, but I intend to try a few gigs and see how it goes, no intentions of becoming pro maybe just a couple of things a month. I would NEVER think of putting on my business card, 'Amateur Magician'! That does not make me a professional, it means I have a professional attitude towards something, which I think mostly comes from being an adult choosing to do this as a hobby. No point practicing and preparing to blow it all in minor details, and even being diligent and practicing shows a fairly professional attitude.
A professional attitude does not make a profession! Being a professional has nothing to do with skill, how much you love the job or anything like that. This may come down to how we want to be seen, I would love to be a professional footballer, musician, actor, magician but I'm not, and even if I tell people I am and act like I am, it does not make me one
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-08-12 18:48, Payne wrote: If you have a day job, and it brings in your living income, it does (or should) have precedence in your life. You owe that yo your day job. You seem to be clinging to the idea that somehow not being a full pro makes you less of a magician. that's not the case at all. HOWEVER it DOES mean that you aren't doing one very very very hard thing-- which is trying to live off of what you make as a performer. I think if you ask any of the full-time pros here they will tell you, quite bluntly, that if you were you wouldn't have the *time* for another job.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
Quote:
Exactly, just like having the stubbornness of a mule doesn't make you a mule
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I am a little surprised to find out that Payne has a day job.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Bryan Smith New user Korea 99 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-08-12 18:48, Payne wrote: couldn't care less
"I'm half drunk most the time
and I'm all drunk the rest" --Tom Waits |
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-08-13 16:14, Bryan Smith wrote: Well maybe he means they could care less.. I've met MANY that *could* care less. Seriously though, this is an odd statement. What do you mean by "couldn't care less about Magic" assuming Bryan is right? I would think, assuming they like to eat and have a roof, they care a great deal about what they do and what they get paid for it. This sounds like you're raising the idea of magic to what my wife would call an idol. An object or concept you make a focus of worship and/or love. Very few professionals make idols of their profession... they know all its strengths and weaknesses and have a realistic POV about it all. Take it from the son of professional writers.... librarians and highschool literature teachers 'care about books.' Writers are too busy writing them. Now, if you mean "care about the community", I don't see that that's a requirement to be a professional. Some people are social. Some people are anti-social. As long as the anti-social ones don't burden the community with anti-social behavior, that's enough for me.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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55Hudson Special user Minneapolis 984 Posts |
This is an interesting discussion, one that has been addressed long ago, in good detail, from a source that is frequently recommended at The Café.
The Original Tarbell Course in Magic. The section entitled, "Magic as a Science" clearly communicates that the title of Professional Magician has nothing to do with compensation, but rather with knowledge and skill. As we have seen from the posts above, there are many different definitions of the term 'Professional', several regarding deriving a living from the field. However, I choose to use Harlan Tarbell's concept. I suggest that anyone who aspires to become a Professional, in this sense, include study of the classics as part of their education. Hudson |
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Ruben Padilla Loyal user Narrative Strategist 206 Posts |
James, the fact that you're already beginning to ask these questions makes you, in my opinion, far along the road towards being a professional. And consider this: being a professional magician is different than doing professional-quality magic. A lot of it is in the practice (which you have down), and the mindset, which you are developing.
Have you read "Strong Magic" by Darwin Ortiz? If not, do yourself a favor and buy it. It's a fantastic book for getting you thinking further. Can't recommend it highly enough. (I'm rereading it myself at the moment). Good luck! |
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Chris Cheong New user Malaysia 100 Posts |
Hey Guys,
The topic of this post "How long are you considered an amateur". Many post replied stating that a professional magician do magic for his living.There is a few magician out here in Malaysia doing crappy tricks with poor presentation and still living as a full time magician. =)I have been performing and earning trough magic to surpport my living and studies for years now.I am still working my way through college. Being a magician here in the entertainment scene is not as tough as U.S or other country, because we have few really good here and it is easy to establish in the entertainment scene. Now my term of what brings an amatuer one step further to a professional is character. Being an amatuer you do all kinds of tricks. Being a professional is knowing what category of magic suits your character.Comedy magic,mentalism,children,etc etc. You have to major in something that suits your character,your personality. It has never been about the trick, it is the presentation. Does not matter if you have skill that you develop over the years hiding yourself in a dark room practicing and practicing without a good presentation. Magic is all about setting,climax,impact,crowd control,etc. If you are able to set this out. Sort out what you want to do, how you want to do. And do it. You are a professional magician. Sorry for my poor english. Above is simply my thoughts that I have in mind. Please do not find it offensive in anyway. =) Have a great day people! Regards, Chris Cheong http://www.chrischeong.net |
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts |
I would find it hard if I asked someone about their magic and they said they were a professional magician but then it came out that they work in a restaurant and just do magic for fun. I couldn't trust them! it's a lie!
again they can have a professional attitude but if it is not your PROFESSION you cannot be professional! if anyone asks about me, tell them I am a professional magician, musician, artist, footballer and dancer (all things that I have done as a hobby and I like to think I do them well so I am professional despite it not being my job)
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
For goodness sake already.
Is this how conversations would be if there was an assisted living complex consisting of magicians. The two old men muppets come to mind. |
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NexusMagicShop Elite user Sunny California 434 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-08-17 19:33, rklew64 wrote: Sorry I love all you guys! But, I couldn't resist to create the image. I hope all of you know I made this in good fun. ................
Jason of BackroomMagic
www.BackroomMagic.com/| Mobile friendly magic forums and blogs www.twitter.com/Nexusmagicstore |
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rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
10 Platinum Stars for Nexus MAgic store!!!!! Stellar!!
Thank you! This made the week, anything else is gravy! |
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Chris Cheong New user Malaysia 100 Posts |
Nice one. =)
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts |
If that muppet magician does magic for his job he is a magician, if not, he is an amateur
even though he is made of material
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
The muppet magician's name is The Amazing Mumford and he is real...he is, he is, he is.
Yea, too much time yadda yadda. |
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