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Ben Harris
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Hi Bernardo.

There will be a print version, perfect bound, nice paper, available from all fine dealers later this month.

Benny
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panlives
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I, too, came across the “rubbish” comments and was startled.
This is a deviously clever and subtle bit.
RSRD is, simply put, incredible.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
Blindside785
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I think I thought too quick when I wanted a refund and everything when I read Silent Run. I never gave it a change or live performance. I think when I get the money I will purchase this again with RSRD and give it all I've got.


Does anyone have live performance experience with SR?
Ben Harris
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Blindside,

I don't know what to say!

Benny
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J.Warrens
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I have nothing to add to this review that hasn't already been said.

What does irk me (just a little) is how much I've spent on purchasing:
a) The Crossroads manuscript
b) The Silent Running manuscript
c) The Run Silent, Run Deep manuscript

To me, A is basically the same as B, with some finger stuff thrown in, and a few other touches or angles.

Now, don't begin hating on me - I'm not being negative here, and I DO understand the subtle AND small differences between the two (A & B).

What is upsetting is that "A" is revealed in "B" essentially. I could've just saved some $$ there, and really it's the same concept in both cases, just handled differently.

After shelling out the $$ to get these, along comes "C", which is really the meat and potatoes of the subject.

All in all, a lot of $$ to get to the end result. It would've been better if all of this had been developed more BEFORE it was released, so as to have a fuller, and more thoroughly thought-out product.

The real value is in this final segment, and for the total amount spent I could've bought something stupendously useful like, oh, I don't know - maybe "The James File" or something along those lines.

That being said, the effects are good etc; etc - I just feel the whole approach was rather long-winded and expensive.

Cheers.
Vlad_77
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J. Warrens,

Crossroads was:

Published a year before SR.

There was an expanded book BEFORE SR called Crossroads Revelations

Silent Running and its companion were published this year.

Silent Running is the logical and improved development of the Crossroads idea.

No one is going to "hate on you" Smile

You have been in magic long enough to know that many effects go through an evolution. In the case of Crossroads and Silent Running, if anything, they are Uncle and Nephew. There are some similarities, but Silent Running is far more versatile and I believe bridges the gap between mentalism and magic far more effectively.

If you think about it, all of this actually evolved from an idea from an unpublished idea from Peter Duffie.

But, I do see your frustration in the sense that money is tight everywhere. But, on the same token, MOST of us as far as I know are facing the really serious financial and life threating situations that some people are facing. I know you realize this as do most people.

Adding SR to your act I believe will only make it stronger and will pay for itself in one gig.

Just my two bits Smile

Ahimsa,
Vlad
hp
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I have purchased the Silent Running and Run Silent, Run Deep ebooks. I haven't read every post here, but I agree with those who say that this is a very valuable tool. In particular, Run Silent, Run Deep addresses some of the audience-management issues that a magician (as opposed to a mentalist) may have with the Silent Running procedure. I think the material is worth the price asked. I do believe, however, that there is quite a bit of filler in the ebook which those of us who print the books out have to deal with - I don't mean only pages containing headings only but also there is quite a bit of repetition throughout the text. Aside from this (essentially a formatting issue), the magic is strong and, under the right circumstances (i.e., in the cases where you don't have to do some fishing to finish the effect) you can perform a seeming miracle.
J.Warrens
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Yes, Vlad.

I agree, and I have used it enough to pay for itself already but, let's be honest - only a year in development before SR was released?

What happened to the days of releasing material "in repertoire"?

If I were to release an item, you could guarantee that it has put food on my table for at least a decade, AND all the bases would be covered very thoroughly.

This just felt like Crossroads rolled down a hill gradually becoming Silent Running, finally causing the avalanche that is now known as Run Silent, Run Deep.

There is just something about this whole process that irks me a bit, and I feel I'm having a hard time trying to explain it in words. I think it has to do with the overall marketing of it.

I'm not trying to detract from the material - it IS good.

I'll just leave it at that. Smile

Cheers.
Ben Harris
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Gentlemen --

It was/is evolution.

Crossroads was/is a card trick. It was developed, out of need, for reasons stated in the original manuscript.

Crossroads THEN led to Peter Duffie creating the "dodge" (to appease those who could not come to grips with equivoque).

In the "dodge" I saw the potential to silence the procedure, taking into the area of mentalism. A whole lot of new material was developed and featured in my act. Feedback from mentalists around the world was: get this out there--it's wonderful. So I did. That was Silent Running. I felt it had true value in that the card selection process was now completely in the spectator's own mind. (Though, I make no pretense that the procedure is better than equivoque, it is NOT!) And, as a performer who works 4 to 5 shows a week, and has done so since 1982 (when I secured my first residency), I think I know what does and does not work. So, this material, all my material, is "in repertoire".

You saw the backlash to SR. How could I sit back and not try to correct that? Thus, the appearance of RSRD, with proof positive that this is a valid and useful procedure. This being supported by a CLEARER explanation and the motherload of performance material.

The concept evolved, and continues to do so.

Question: Will I throw out all the wonderful material that has been developed as a reaction to that which appears in Run Silent Run Deep?

This material is even more finely evolved than what is in RSRD.



PEACE AND GOOD THOUGHTS TO ALL -- I'm sorry if I sound defensive in the above, but this is quite a hunk of my like we are talking about. And, it is all very close to my heart.

Benny

PS: Re filler-- I like to lay out my products so they look good. Many ebooks and printed books look like they are put together by 12 year olds. As a graphic designer by trade, I will make every effort to make my products pleasing to the eye. And, that will involve plenty of "white space". Plenty of room to "breath."
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gmeister
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It's exactly the give and take when something comes out that serves as a catalyst to the evolution of effects. If Ben hadn't released SR, there would probably have been no RSRD. I doubt he would have gotten very far in a vacuum.

Sure, I would prefer getting more for less: money is really tight these days and I often feel pangs of guilt when I make a purchase. Sure, given this, I would have liked to have had everything--and I mean EVERYTHING--all neatly contained in one comprehensive volume (although the cost may well have been the same or more as getting both SR and RSRD). And I know when the third vollume comes out, we can just reference a good part of this discussion and not bother posting since the comments will be the same. But lets be honest(and belabor the obvious:

1) Magic/mentalism in whatever form is expensive since there's a small market for it (and I doubt we'd want it any other way).
2) Those who create magic/mentalism effects generally have one or more "real" jobs, so much it's that much more impressive when they come up with spectacularly good stuff.
3) And to reinforce Ben's point, evolution occurs. People who go to a "pre-production" broadway show may wish they had waited until the "final prodction," since many things may have changed (or evolved). But that change/evolution occured in great part because of their reaction/feedback.

If we could indeed read minds and gaze into the future,then perhaps all of the friendly grousing could have been avoided. But until then, I'm afraid that we have to accept the process as it is and be thankful that it works as well as it does, giving us often brilliant material that gets more brilliant as it evolves.

Sorry for the ramble. Trying to match my friend Vlad, although absent his knowledge and eloquence, but I think you get my point, no matter how jisjointedly it's been made.
J.Warrens
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OK.

I just want to make sure that what I've written above wasn't taken offensively, it most definitely isn't (and wasn't) intended that way.

Ben, I like what you have created from the beginning to the end - I too, am a worker, performing a 3 hr. show, 3 nights a week at the same venue for 11 years now, in addition to side contracts - so yeah, I have a good idea what works too.

This DOES work, and works well, which is the reason why I've supported the project from the beginning. You are to be congratulated for your work, and I can completely understand your sentiments in this regard - I'm not trying to attack your "children" so to speak.

The original post occurred after looking at my finances and bills etc; realizing that if I had spent the sum total of this in it's entirety at once on something else....you can kind of see where that thinking leads.

I hope this clears things up.

I use these ideas presented feeling satisfied, and I hope others do too.

Alright, I am definitely leaving it at that. Smile

Cheers.
Ben Harris
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Hi J.

My friend, no offense taken. I am so happy that you, as a pro, are using the work. Nothing makes me happier.

Benny
+ "Top 10" Best-Selling author at Lybrary.com
+ Proud sponsor "Genii Magazine's 75th Anniversary Convention"
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tjw
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Quote:
On 2010-08-03 06:01, The.Amazing.Boy wrote:
Thank to you all folks ! Still, I'd like to Hear from Some who didn't or still don't like SR.
There is also something important I should point out. Most of my friends and also most people I know, due to our studies, easily see through things with mathematical aspects. It may be the
case for SR.

I am a mathematician. I will try this on my colleagues and see what will happen.
My guess is that won't be a problem if the presentation is right.
J.Warrens
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Thanks, Ben.
LFoxx
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I honestly don't think that you can compare the James File to Crossroad - SR - RSRD, and then say the SR wasn't properly audience tested.

Now I'm not trying to start anything, and I'm a HUGE Stewart James fan, but if Stewart James were to properly audience test everything of his in Stewart James in Print (the first fifty years) and the James File, there would have to be more than 24 hours in the day to do all that performing!
Mad_Lewis
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Quote:
On 2010-08-07 02:09, tjw wrote:

I am a mathematician. I will try this on my colleagues and see what will happen.
My guess is that won't be a problem if the presentation is right.


thanks to you for trying this experiment !
A little note though, whatever the result is, it will prove nothing. But it will still be interesting to see what may occur. What I wrote where my impressions when failing in performance, so just a problem to be solved for me. I call it "problem" since I'm frustrated to see it work so well for you all and not for me. don't worry, work is in progress Smile
J.Warrens
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@ isaaclouie:

I think you've misunderstood what I wrote.

Silent Running is marketed as an effect, whereas the James File is literally the life work of a single individual, with additions.

It's intended to be a reference work - and what a set it is! Literally hundreds of effects in there.

I was only talking about what "could've" been purchased for almost the same price (when it was available, at least!).

Anyways, I don't wish for this thread to be derailed any further.

Cheers.
Bernardo Rodriguez
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Quote:
On 2010-08-05 20:09, Ben Harris wrote:
Hi Bernardo.

There will be a print version, perfect bound, nice paper, available from all fine dealers later this month.

Benny


Ok great I'm going to have to grab one then...

Bernardo Rodriguez
Mad_Lewis
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Hi ben the work on my take of the SR procedure is almost done. Since this thread is About RSRD I talked about what I found here : http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......art=30#1

again, I don't think it will be worth stewart james idea but it is still an idea Smile
Ben Harris
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Thanks, Tab.

Look forward to the details. Appreciate your efforts and your spirit of exploration!

Benny
+ "Top 10" Best-Selling author at Lybrary.com
+ Proud sponsor "Genii Magazine's 75th Anniversary Convention"
+ Inventor of the world famous Floating Match
+ WOWBOUND.COM
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