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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Both of the bone methods in the youtube link come from:
"The Oracle of the Bones" by Claire O'Neil It's a kit that comes with a book, casting cloth and fake bones (the bones don't look good though). Here is an interesting use of a jack ball: http://www.luckymojo.com/lovespells.html#lovemeordiejackball This uses the swinging of the jack ball as part of a spell, rather than for divination, in the same way that Richard Webster and Millard Longman talk about. Here is another interesting description of a Jack Ball that is actually for sale: http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatmojo.html#jack This is a major hoodoo power object used for general power, to empower any other work and for divination The thing about the Jack Balls though is that they just look like a little red ball on the end of a little red string. Unless someone grew up in a hoodoo culture, or has studied hoodoo, then you might as well use one of the balls from a cups-and-balls set, because the significance will be lost on them. ...OR you could describe exactly what it is and then offer a pitch book on how to make and use them (!). Personally I wouldn't, I'd rather keep that kind of thing to people with a strong interest hoodoo and the like, but it might be profitable.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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Ms. Merizing Loyal user Edwin Carl Erwin is digging postholes for 232 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-08-06 19:18, seadog93 wrote: Perhaps because according the the Times of India "Chicken bones & black magic cannot harm you": http://sanaledamaruku.blogspot.com/2010/......010.html ? Or this from, READERS, ROOT WORKERS,and BLACK GYPSIES: http://www.luckymojo.com/blackgypsies.html "BONE READERS Reading the bones was once common in Hoodoo, but I have found few who do it these days. I know of two styles. READING CHICKEN BONES The first style uses chicken bones, and each bone has a special meaning -- the wing bone for travel, the breast bone for love, and so forth. The bones are thrown on a table and they are read much as tea-leaves are, by the pattern made and by the directions they point." Or possibly because the Colonel's 11 herbs & spices make chicken osteology the most compelling avian prop? For an affordable skull of the Gallus gallus domesticus: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/record_variant.php?id=3260
Pleased to continue finding that all the world's a stage.
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Throwing bones is one thing. Another is to put the scapula (or a turtle shell) in a fire, until it cracks, and read them.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Ms. Merizing,
The first two references are not reasons, just articles that mention chicken bones and/or divination. The third is very true! Posted: Aug 8, 2010 11:56am BTW, I finished making up my set last night. They looked pretty good to start off with, but a little brown shoe polish and I now have a VERY cool looking set of casting bones.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
SeaDOg, I bet your bones look cool.....I will be making my set very soon.
This is becoming a really informated thread! Ray |
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Ray,
yeah totally. I was a little worried that the shoe polish wouldn't work, but it's great! I think I'm going to do a set of cards later, maybe tonight. I'm going to put them in a bag with some crushed up amber resin so that they: 1) smell appropriately mystical 2) (more important) don't smell like shoe polish and BBQ sauce This my curio idea (just theoretical at this point, I'll be using my new system as is for a while to get use to it): One curio each per life area (love, money, etc), These can be cast with the bones and there proximity to the bones and position on the casting cloth will clarify and emphasized different aspects, or alternatively one or several may be drawn to clarify the reading and these may be thrown if desired. Also three of the these could also be used as a set of sky stones, one for the sitter, one for yes (or positive) and one for no (or negative). These could all be carried in a large mojo bag with a pendulum or jack ball. Posted: Aug 8, 2010 5:10pm I just went to my local used bookstore, looking for "The oracle of the bones" (which I've flipped through several times but never bought). They didn't have a copy, but I DID find a book called "The zulu bone oracle" by Ulufudu for $4 Any book small cheap book of this nature is, IMHO, suspect as far as accuracy goes; same with The Oracle of the Bones. I suspect that this is not a real Zulu divination method; which is fine with me, but it looks like it has some interesting ideas and concepts that could be applicable to tentatively planned additions to my bone set. Posted: Aug 8, 2010 5:21pm On closer inspection this book looks better than I thought. It admits that it is a "simplified" method, based on the traditional zulu method. It uses traditional Zulu numerology (that's pretty interesting right there) plus 5 extra "bones" representing self, male, female, spiritual authority and material matters. All 18 bones are thrown and the ones landing face up are interpreted. The number bones may be touching any of the 5 extra bones, altering the interpretation. This is very close to what I had originally planned. Posted: Aug 8, 2010 11:51pm I'm embarrassed that I forgot this, but a jack ball is only one traditional hoodoo pendulum. The super-traditional hoodoo pendulum is a whole, large Queen Elizabeth Root (Orris Root) on the end of a red thread. http://herb-magic.com/queen-elizabeth-root.html
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
Chicken bones are quite appropriate for hoodoo divination, perhaps a black rooster sacrificed to Manman Brigitte. If they're cat bones, you have to kill the cat (a black cat) by plunging it head first into boiling water, then skin the dead animal with your teeth. The bones are quite powerful I hear.
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The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3909 Posts |
I published this on the other Bone Divination thread, but...
One of my favourite sets of bone oracles, with Cavebear pawn bones. |
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handa Inner circle Pittsburgh, PA 1357 Posts |
Would any of this have to do with the type of bones and other organic matter available to the practicioner?
Chris |
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-08-09 01:40, JohnWells wrote: But does it taste like chicken?
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
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The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3909 Posts |
With my set, I had to kill the cavebear with bare hands before eating him...
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The_Alexander New user Finland 63 Posts |
For chicken lov..no, I mean worshippers
http://miwiki.net/El_Pollo_Diablo Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!
--- Waris the Magician, Expert of Wonders ---
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
I've not seen the "Zulu Bone Oracle" book, but I can tell you it's not like anything I've learned actually studying bone divination and diagnosis with the Amazulu.
Zulu numerology? For real? Though numbers and their meanings will have sacred values and significance in pretty much every culture, the Zulu methods are more closely related to traditional San tablet readings at their core and expands from there with everything centering around the ancestors and their chosen mouthpiece. The Zulu system for bone diagnosis has very, very little to do with numbers (1-6 for dice is common, as are values adding up on two dice and a set of dominos in many cases (blank or numbered sides/binary, not numeric values) which all mean different things as it stands, though not at all "numerology", at least not how we think of it. The descriptions I've read here of the book in question are nothing like the system in use by hundreds of traditional healers & Sangomas I've ever met, worked with or studied under in South Africa. Buyer beware! (But hey, at $4.00, who could go wrong?) I will add that although it may not be traditional or culturally accurate, the book may indeed have a use for alternative methods of interpretation for those unable to undergo thwasa or be mentored in the proper use of bone casting and interpretation in the Zulu tradition by a qualified Sangoma. I'll add a few more thoughts to this thread - First, I agree with Mota with regards to bringing trickery and deception into what is a very ancient and powerful method for divination. To each their own, but if you're looking to perform "tricks" while throwing the bones, something is wrong. Again, this is only my personal opinion as a Traditional Healer and need not affect other's artistic vision in the slightest. Second, there are no "set numbers" of pieces to be used and/or incorporated by the Zulu Sangoma (of course I can't speak for other traditions, cultures and societies which also incorporate bone casting, burning, shelling, cracking, etc) -for the Sangoma, the bones are what they are and are maintained under the will and supervision of the ancestors. We don't decide what pieces go into a set of bones for spiritual use, traditional healing, diagnosis or divination. They do, period. Third, there are few great sources out there for bone diagnosis in the Zulu tradition. One of the best was written by Dr. David Cumes, titled "Africa in my Bones" and can be purchased via his website or through Amazon. Here is a link to the videos portion of his website: http://www.davidcumes.com/videos.html If those with real interest in the subject take the time to watch the two videos linked above, David gives some incredible insight into the ways and methods of Traditional Healers in South Africa, treatments and divination included. You'll also see video footage of our Mentor and Father PH Mntshali and the homestead we were both trained, qualified, bound and initiated at in Swaziland (Matsetsa). The footage is phenomenal and Baba Mntshali was recognized far and wide as a Zulu Elder, Master Sangoma, founding member of the THO (Traditional Healers Organization) and one of the greatest traditional healers in all of South Africa. HIGHLY recommended. Besides David's book and my own forthcoming written accounts and transcripts of the thwasa experience, becoming a Sangoma and living with ancestors I don't really know of any other sources, and surely none dedicated to bone diagnosis in the Zulu tradition. You'll find a few interesting references throughout Susan Campbell's book "Called to Heal" (also highly recommended) as well as through various works by the High Sanusi of the Zulu people and lifelong friends of the Mntshali family of Sangoma traditional healers, Baba Credo Mutwa (author of Song of the Stars, Zulu Shaman, Indaba My Children, etc). PH also wrote a book titled, "The Power of the Ancestors" which enjoyed a small audience consisting of his family, friends, students and all of those who came to love this incredible man and healer throughout his lifetime. I have no idea how one might obtain a copy, but for those interested I will certainly do my best. I DO like where you're going with this, Courtney - especially with regards to authentic Hoodoo Rootwork, conjure and divination. An excellent resource for such things may be found at: http://www.luckymojo.com which is my spiritual supply store of choice here in the States and an amazing resource inside of which one may very well get lost for hours on end. When it comes to bone casting/throwing, divination and diagnosis - please respect the traditions we draw from and remember these are REAL systems of spiritual practice on the verge of extinction and something certain people both on this board and elsewhere take very seriously. It means a lot to me to present traditional Zulu bone casting as such and the few Sangomas we have working here in the U.S. do intend to keep it that way. For an EXCELLENT non-descript, Hoodoo-esque system for bone casting and psychic-flavored readings I recommend the new offering by the amazing Martin/Baukin team via MevPro Shop titled "Crossroads." http://www.mevproshop.com/ With this fantastic piece of work and the methods taught therein and perhaps even embellished with a few of the traditional Hoodoo roots, jackballs and curios from any one of the spiritual supply stores that abound, one could be well on their way to working with a beautiful, ancient and incredibly powerful system for divination using tools and methods not seen or experienced very often. The last thing I'll say here should be obvious: whether you're intent on learning more about bone casting in the Zulu tradition, Hoodoo or any other significant spiritual work riding on the back of a time, people and culture not your own, please do yourself and everyone who sits with you a favor and educate yourself on the use of such tools and traditions as much as possible. One day you're going to find yourself in the company of someone who DOES know about these things, and these practices being rare and exotic is no excuse to slack or not do as much digging, homework and trial/error through practical application as is possible and warranted. I really hope this post doesn't come off sounding harsh or like a rant at all, it's certainly not intended in that way. I truly wish everyone in this thread the very best no matter which road they take, and the best of luck while pursuing this sacred and potent form of diagnosis, divination and even sittings for entertainment with their psychic and spiritual-flavored readings. -JF
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
JF,
Thanks for your post. I don't disagree with anything you wrote. -It seems that the book is even less accurate about the zulu method than I thought (hard to believe!). I actually think this is a good thing, as I have even less to worry about misappropriation. -Lucky Mojo is indeed (IMHO) the ultimate hoodoo store. If anyone is ever anywhere close to Forestville, CA and wants to see what a real magic shop looks like, check it out! Also (just a little trivia), while I don't think she uses cold readings herself, Catherine Yronwode is a fan of Robert Nelsons and Herb Dewey's and used to collect stock readings from Gypsy readers all over California. -Crossroads, by "Martin Baukin" is exactly the book I referenced in the other thread. It is really great. I've been playing around with my set and there is actually quite a bit more subtlety in the readings than I had originally expected, so my additions may not be necessary (actually, they definitely are not necessary, but they may be fun). As I said I'm thinking of several extras (herbal and animal curios) to the set of bones, these would be used: 1) in a similar way to the (fake) "zulu bone oracle" book 2) as sky stones 3) picked out randomly from a bag to clarify an aspect of the reading, or to gain focus on the reading, or as an intro. mini reading. Posted: Aug 11, 2010 5:51pm I'd also like to mention that while crossroads has a very interesting section on card reading (haven't finished it yet) for a real hoodoo flavor check out Ron Martins "swamp cards" also at mevproshop. I'm still getting comfortable with the bones so I haven't incorporated them, but with both of these a Queen Elizabeth root pendulum and (optional) a few extra curios, it seems to me that you could do about as deep a reading as you could ever want.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-08-06 23:49, mota wrote: When I mention about having a magnetic bone I was thinking in line of doing ‘Thought channel’ or something that would pull people into my world bit by bit. I would leave the bone casting as simply bone castings. It is funny when you mention things that people seem to think you mean one thing when in fact you are two steps ahead of them in your thinking. I took it for granted that people would see/know what I intended. I just thought that people would have seen that adding a little magic (hoodoo) with your presentation will add another layer to your persona. I never said that I was going to use a trick bone in the casting. I see myself pulling out my mojo bag and reaching in and removing a claw or tooth/bone and placing it in the hand of the sitter and connecting with them (the Process/Pulse) and then doing something like ‘Thought Channel’. Then go into the bone casting. Is there anything wrong in this way of thinking? I never casted bones before but am willing to make it as real as possible and think that by adding little touches here and there can only increase the moment. Why is casting bones not allowed to have a little magic before or after? Best Ray |
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Stefan New user 78 Posts |
Chatzpro used to make a magnetic chicken bone, also I modified one of my own to be magnetic. I would think its easier to modify a bone than to make a fake one. Response to earlier post
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mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
Ray,
Those are good thoughts and I have had similar things pass through my head. It isn't that you can't do something with the reading, it just has to fit what should be the focus of the reading...themselves. Remember, a reading is about them...usually an effect is about you. If an effect increases the power of the reading then it is fine. Most effects though focus on the abilities of the performer and that isn't where the focus of a reading should be. Having said that...I have thought about something very similar to what you suggest, and yes, with bone reading. In the "old" dvd, "Energy Bill", there is a wonderful warm-up with energy work. My wife actually asked me if I was using thread...it works that well. The effect on that dvd is also excellent but I wondered if the warm-up might not be applied in other areas...so part two... Do the Energy Bill warm-up, then follow with Pure Telepathy (Pascal de Clermont, and yes, it does work well). I wouldn't do this with cards, but perhaps with some of the bones...they focus on one they feel drawn to and you tune in with them (NOT read their mind, that is about you...tune in with them is about them). The bone they tune in on could have a special place in the reading. After doing the Energy Bill warm-up Pure Telepathy should be a piece of cake. I am still a bit shaky at this idea. I feel after a reading they should be thinking about the personal experience they had, not how wonderful the performer/reader was...but the thought has occurred to me that there might be something here. Still, that does not mean magick can't be done, even in the reading. There is an entire school of readers (very good ones too) who have no problem helping a reading along a bit. I got to admit they often make a good case and their results show it. It isn't two steps ahead as you think, it isn't two steps behind as I think. It is more of a left/right kind of thing. I just wonder, especially with bone reading, how you would increase the power with any effect. Remember, I wonder, I don't know. I wish you well with your experiments. |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
Moto
That was a great post. It isn’t that I am after a magic trick; it is more that I am trying to connect with them on a deeper level. Instead of having the sitter SIT there as I just cast the bones I want to give them an experience that they are also connected. Connected to what is about to happen. Maybe though some breathing exercises and the like. I want them to feel lightheaded and to believe that they are really experiencing the power (magic) of the bones. It isn’t just magic tricks, it is the magic that is experience through the magic effect that I am after right before I cast the bones! I hope that this makes sense! LOL Best Ray |
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JAlenS Inner circle Utah 1526 Posts |
I use numbered chicken bones for the WA, some of my own effects and just to creep people out. They all came in a family bucket from KFC and were painstakingly dried, bleached, burned and PKd. They now have a home in the SM drawer.
Does anyone know of anything on reading human teeth. It's got to be just as disgusting for the reader as the readee. Are human teeth considered bone? What would it be called? Dentomancy?? |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Perhaps the spec casts a handful of bones, and the way they fall suggests a series of directions you could go, each of which can be discussed. Then spec does the mag-bone, and you make it go where you want.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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