I've been leaning the Tameriz stack for about a week now. I know it's going to take a while before I completely know the stack inside and out. I know the Tamariz stack is big in Europe, ibwas wondering how many people in the US use the stack, and what is your favorite effect with the stack? Also I'm very new to the memorized deck and I wouldn't mind hear people's favorite indapendent stak deck trick?

William

Hi William, I learned the Tamariz stack 3 weeks ago...

If you use the search function you'll get tons of info... That's how I convinced myself to learn the stack. I remember a topic called "what trick inspire you to learn a stack"

Anyway, although I'm not from the US, my favorites are: 4 of a kind (tamariz), control in chaos (idem) for a closer and for special occasions (encore) ACAAN (barry richardson). Plus I'm working to improve Aronson's invisible card for higher impact and to suit my style.

Also I'm reviewing my repertoire to see what effects are improved with the stack...

Hi William,

The Tamariz and Aronson stacks are BOTH widely used in America and both have their strengths and both are powerful. Many appreciate the fact that you can go into Tamariz stack from NDO for instance. You won't go wrong learning either or both of them. As a bonus, many effects are stack independent. Rusduck did a lot of work in this area as well as many others.

Dennis Loomis is our resident memdeck expert and you could shoot a PM to him, or, perhaps he will chime in. Check HIS site out here: http://www.loomismagic.com/memdeck.php

LOTS of information.

Also, check out this page for a TON of articles on memdeck work: http://headinside.blogspot.com/2010/05/n......ion.html

That being said, your final statement includes not just memdecks, but other systems as well such as the Osterlind BCS, The Joyal Stack, Cornelius' Stack, as well as older stacks - which should NOT be dismissed either such as Si Stebbins for instance. Some people still use The Nikola Stack, which can be found in The Encyclopedia of Card Tricks.

Leo Boudreau does a lot of work with specialized stacks and set-ups as did the master Stewart James. Charles Jordan's work is well worth study as well.

Ahimsa,
Vlad

I use the Aronson Stack myself but there are many GREAT effects possible with the Tamariz Mnemonica stack. I've adapted some Mnemonica effects to work with Aronson.

Personally, I think a lot of time has been wasted on the Café trying to compare all of the full deck stacks that exist. There is no "best" stack. They are all tools and some tools are for some jobs and some for others. If you want to progress as a performer I suggest that you evaluate your repertoire and think carefully about what effect you would like to add. Then ask yourself why can't you do them today? In some cases the answer will be that there are sleights needed that you can't do. So, allocate some time and get to work on them. In other instances you will need to memorize a stack. Fine... just get to work doing it. Don't worry too much about the "best" way to learn... just pick a method and get to work. We all learned a ton of stuff in school with simple rote memory. I personally like mnemonics. Juan Tamariz has a great bunch of ideas on learning a stack in Mnemonica.

Also, if you're serious about your magic study as much as you can. When you get a new book does it go right onto your bookshelf and just sit there? Or, do you sit down with it, read it cover to cover, work through as many of the tricks as you can, and try to understand and use the author's ideas? The more you know about magic, the more paths will open up to you. Your thinking will be informed and the dividends will be great.

Of course, my basic piece of advice I've shared many times before is: LEARN HOW TO BOOK SHOWS. Magic is a performing art and you cannot learn to perform by yourself behind closed doors. You have to get out in front of audiences if you really want to master the craft. When people you've entertained hire you back again, you know you're on the right path.

Dennis Loomis

Dennis is right, of course. With that in mind, I'll share three dirty little secrets about memorized decks.

1. Most of the best effects using a memorized deck don't require a particular stack. Most magicians spend too much time agonizing over the built-in effects for each stack, but most magicians never end up using those effects. I actually spent more time researching stacks than it took me to memorize a deck. Sad, but true.

2. Almost every magician has the brain power required to memorize a stack. I have a few simple exercises that I can give you to prove this to yourself, but that's a whole other topic. It really is easier than you might imagine at first.

3. The memorized deck is not a panacea; it's a Magician Amplifier. I saw Jamy Ian Swiss do some exquisite work in the Parlor of the Magic Castle last night. He's of the opinion that the memorized deck is a tool that amplifies the other skills that you have at your disposal. If you're a beginner, you should work on fundamental sleights and strategies. Once you have good fundamental skills, a memorized deck, intelligently deployed, will help you take your magic to a whole new level.

Any card at any number is great with it.

The Tamariz stack has been objectively established as The Best. aronson is OK; unless you prefer to use The Best system in the world, for all of time. Not my opinion; an established, immutable fact of Nature. (personally, I use stebbins.)

really?? I thought they both are almost at the same level.
(btw, I am using Tamariz stack only)

- Arthur

Gee, I was totally unaware that the Mnemonica stack had been objectively established as the best in the world. Can you tell me who made this determination, what the criteria were, and where this is published? Simon is going to be very disappointed when someone tells him.

I must point out that the Si Stebbins stack is a very different tool than the Aronson or Mnemonica stacks. First, you don't have to use memory at all to determine the value of the next card, just add three to the value. (And drop 13 when you go "around the horn." To determine the suit of the next card, you will have to remember a predetermined suit sequence. Something like CHaSeD makes this very easy. So why would many of us use the Aronson or Mnemonica stacks with a lot more to remember? Because they are FAR more powerful tools. With Si Stebbins, it's only easy to determine the card which follows or proceeds a given card. You can figure out, for example, what the card is that's 19 cards down. But it takes quite a bit of mental effort to do. With Aronson or Mnemonica (or Nikola, or Ireland, etc.) It's very fast and easy to do. That's with a random card on the bottom. But, if the stack is in "home" position it's truly child's play once your deck is memorized.

I don't know why so many people say, on the Café, that they use Si Stebbins whern true memorized stacks are being discussed.

Dennis Loomis

Thank you, Dennis. Simply annoying to read statements of people who don't know about what there are talking. Jan

As had been said ad nauseam here everyone has different need and thus might find different stack useful. I find the poker deals and spelling effects are a bit more contrived in Mnemonica vs Aronson stack so if ease of doing those is important build in feature you might want to lean towards AS , on the other hand going TO NDO from Mnemonica is a neat effect..and so on.
Having said that though, any stack you know well will serve you , the build in stuff is just a small add-on (in most cases you can get the same effects via different method if you really wanted).
Oh and since the original question was about favorite effects, I would say most often I do my version of any card named in wallet and my version of any card at any number , mnemonicosis

The Title of the thread is "Tamariz Stack." But dimazales is right, the question asked was about favorite effects. So, let me address that. I love Histed Heisted. I do it with an Aronson stack, but you can do it with Mnemonica or any other memorized stack. I'm also very fond of Gene Anderson's Routine with a Si Stebbins Stack. Except that I do it with the Aronson stack. Again, you can do it with Mnemonica, as well. However, Gene has an ending for which the Si Stebbins stack is best. I can do it with Aronson, and it's possible it could be done with Mnemonica, but it's easiest with SS.

This is just one example which proves my contention: it is absolutely pointless to ask the question which is the best full deck stack? As performers, we are NOT required to choose and then exclusively use one full deck stack. That would be like telling a carpenter that he has to choose between a hammer and a screwdriver because he can only have one of them in his toolbag. Ridiculous. I use several different full deck stacks in my work. You can, too.

Dennis Loomis

Dennis Loomis

Thanks for your wealth of information. This will help many magicians.

Hands down, my favorite effect to do with the Tamariz stack is "Mnemonicosis." It can be done with any memorized deck, and certainly the basic effect is outlined many places in print, under different names, I started with Mnemonica, so it will always be that to me. It's exciting for me to perform, because it keeps me on my toes and exciting for the audience because, sometimes, there's a miraculous payoff.

Thanks Josh. Been using Osterlind stack for years which suited me well. Nice to see others out there for the clever eyes.

Decomp

To Josh,
I agree that Mnemonicosis is a GREAT effect. Or, at least it can be. You don't really know what the exact effect is going to be until it's over. On the one hand, it requires you to think on your feet... much like Vernon's Trick That Can't Be Explained. But, it takes advantage of the fact that the deck in play is memorized, thus making some downright inexplicable effects possible. And, it will, to some extent, amplify your sleight of hand skills since you can often bring them to play in your routine. For example, to get away from the procedure of counting down to a number and then turning over the NEXT card... you can use a top change. You do count down to a card which ends up held singly in your right hand, and the balance of the deck is held in the left hand. The selected or named card was right after the card you counted to, and is now on the top of the deck. As you have the spectator confirm the identity of the card again, all eyes will go to him, and you can do a top change. Then, you regain attention and slowly reveal the single card in your right had is, in fact, the named card. In similar ways, the ability to deal seconds or bottoms, to glimpse the top or bottom card, and so many other skills can be brought into play. Tamariz himself says that Mnemonicosis is the strongest effect in his book.

Dennis Loomis

Dennis,

Part of the thrill that I get from Mnemonicosis is that I don't know what the outcome is going to be, so it's as much of a thrill for me as it is for the spectator. I do enjoy taking risks with the effect to try and get a better payoff. For example, I performed it for a friend, Chris, a month or so ago. I went through the spiel, and his thought of card was the 7 of clubs. Immediately, I recognized that I could get to that card by having him spell his name, dealing cards from the face of the pack; however, I gave him a choice, asking if he preferred the top or bottom of the pack (preparing myself to find a way to easily get to the bottom of the pack if he chose the top), happily, he chose the bottom, which gave a cleaner, better payoff, without the need for me to touch the deck, or give superfluous instruction.

Equally, I demonstrated the effect for two teens from South Africa at the World Magic Seminar. After having the card named, and the deck cut, I still had roughly 12 cards to go, and asked one of them to give me a number between 10 and 20. Luckily, again, 12 was named.

When I perform this, I do try to take a cue from Juan, and stay distanced from the deck, so when the routine is reconstructed, the spectators remember that I never came near the deck. Sometimes, this isn't possible, though, and I do have to use an equivocal technique to get to the thought-of card, sometimes needing to use Max Maven's high/low gambit.

I can certainly see how using sleight-of-hand can be a very powerful tool in Mnemonicosis, it takes more away, for me, than it adds. I certainly do use those aforementioned techniques when I'm jazzing with the stack, but that's a topic for another thread. A friend of mine uses the stack as well, and we do get together about once a week, and typically spend an hour or so during each of our sessions challenging each other with Mnemonicosis which gives us the opportunity to discover new outs and hone our ability to think more quickly, in a "safe" environment.

(I still can't believe that the card thought of in Juan's show was the 9 of diamonds)

Josh

Here is something I came up with today for this same problem,

Cut the ace of clubs to the bottom,
then start by culling the king of diamonds then every other card,
reverse top 26 (9 of spades and ace of spades is the split)


This just gets you ahead so you don't have to deal two piles of cards. Its goes very fast and smooth,

Another yes for Mnemonciosis. Another great trick with Mnemonica is Four Hours, which is derived from Simon Aronsons Simon Eyes. Combine what you can read in the book with an intelligent use of crimp/breather in the ten of hearts and false shuffles between the shows of card...

Another yes for Mnemonciosis. Another great trick with Mnemonica is Four Hours, which is derived from Simon Aronsons Simon Eyes. Combine what you can read in the book with an intelligent use of crimp/breather in the ten of hearts and false shuffles between the shows of card...