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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Believe it or not... » » Anyone in philly do sideshow trainig? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Freak Prodigy
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Quote:
On 2010-08-16 08:45, Stephon wrote:
Skeleton, Harley--who is one of the most qualified teachers on this forum--contacted Kyle, so there really isn't any need for the rest of us to.

And what gives you the impression that just because someone asks for information, that they are automatically due it? If the person asking doesn't seem serious enough, old enough, or prepared enough to use the information safely and responsibly, it would be wrong for us to simply hand it over.


Exactly. As a magician, Skeleton, would you tell someone how to perform all the tricks in your arsenal just because they asked?
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Skeleton
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To your comments:

1) For me it was not obvious that harley did contact Kyle and therefore this whole thread came across as though noone would be willing to give him the advise he seeks!

2) No, I would not tell anyone how to perform tricks just because they asked, however if they told me that they are already doing magic (or in this case sideshow-stunts) and only wanted to have a contact (as Kyle did) then of course I would!

And I would do it because I can't stand this whole elitist attitude the whole magic fraternity sometimes is showing and which sometimes also comes across from the sideshow performers!

Because let's face it, what is the big deal - if someone want's to get the secrets and how-to's in these days of the internet he certainly will, and to my understanding that is not a bad thing! Because if the young newcomers were dependent upon getting the teaching from the old-school magicians this artform would be dying rather quickly - at least that is my experience over the last 30 years.

Not to mention the fact that there would be no new input or innovations, as most "oldtimers" tend to preach the old-school way aka "that's the way it was always done bla, bla, bla..." or why do I get the impression that the most innovative magicians are mostly self-taught from the start or have early on gone their own ways?
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Stephon
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No one gets hurt performing 98% of the magic tricks that people do; there is a good chance of someone hurting themselves or others if they perform sideshow stunts improperly. Your comparison doesn't hold up.

I believe it wasn't obvious to you, but there is a post in the thread where Harley says that he contacted Kyle and hadn't heard back yet.
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Harley Newman
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We're not discussing double-lifts. I got a paper-cut, the last time I tried one.

Skeleton, are you a stunt-performer?
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Skeleton
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@ Harley: No I am not (at least not yet) - but there we have it: don't treat me like a baby, I know quite well that we are not discussing double-lifts!
And I am also not a hot-blooded testosterone-guided youngster (I am 46) who wants or needs to impress someone by doing something outragous.
But on the other hand also don't try to give the impression as if the stunts you are doing are soo out of reach and difficult, because for most of them all it takes are a lot of guts and - here we are again - some good advice/training.
But as I already said, if you come across as such an elitist group as you sometimes do I am certain that a lot of people interested in your stuff will not even try to seek advice from you and will rather be looking for the how-to in the internet - and as far as I got the impression that is exactly what you do NOT want!?
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Stephon
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Skeleton, if they were "soo out of reach and difficult", it wouldn't be an issue; no one if trying to teach themselves skydiving, or learning it off the internet.

That is the exact reason why, if someone seems too immature or ill-prepared to learn something dangerous, they need to be educated to that fact. Once they realize it, then they will understand that they need to wait to learn the information.

Again, Harley contacted Kyle. The boy was not brushed off. The rest of us knew it, and there was no need for us to pursue him. And when someone says things like they've done "a bit of blockhead" they are not demonstrating a real understanding of what they are asking for.

You have no idea what the exchange was between Harley and Kyle. Telling someone they are not ready to be taught something is not "elitist", it is responsible. Is, "If you won't teach me, I'll learn it from the internet" really the proper criterion for accepting someone as a student?
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kmpx18
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I'm wondering if I had perhaps done something wrong.
I was really trying to say that I do do the blockheads I just don't always do it as it is not of my true interest. I have researched much and I'm only looking to further my
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Skeleton
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Well Stephon, as we probably both don't know what has been discussed between Harley and Kyle I think we should leave it here - I guess I made my point.
But even though you are at a first look correct that his statement come across a little bit uncouth one has to keep in mind that he is only 18 and therefore will probably not think twice about every word he posts.
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Stephon
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No, Kyle, you have done nothing wrong, you just seem a bit young and inexperienced, and any responsible person would want to be sure they weren't handing a proverbial loaded gun to you.

Keep in contact with Harley, follow his advice, you'll do fine.
~Les S. Moore, The Dapper Dipper
Swami Yomahmi and Cheeky Monkey Sideshow

"Comedy is a man in trouble." ~Bill Irwin
kmpx18
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Thank you stephon I was just worried
yes I am still unexperienced so my words aren't always going to be wise but that's something I want to change
Stephon
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No, we don't know exactly what Harley and Kyle discussed, but I know Harley and he has made his thoughts on the matter of learning/teaching stunts clear--http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=159654&forum=23&16, for example--so, I am confident that I have a good idea.

If you still find that elitist, well, thank you for your input; it has been noted.
~Les S. Moore, The Dapper Dipper
Swami Yomahmi and Cheeky Monkey Sideshow

"Comedy is a man in trouble." ~Bill Irwin
Freak Prodigy
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The new "Sideshow Elitist" group is now up on Facebook... Please "like" it, thanks.
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Harley Newman
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Skeleton, I made a joke, at my own expense. And I asked you a question. That was it.

I did not in any way treat you like a baby. I did not imply that you were a "hot-blooded testosterone-guided youngster". That's your anger, your words, and the twists and turns of your life. I have my own twists, thank you.

I asked about your background, because I'm curious to know more.

If I sound elitist, when I talk about the need to learn stunts from experienced stunt performers, then you completely miss the point. You could write volumes about these things, but a book cannot replace good teaching.

Good teaching is an interactive process. When I teach, I can SEE how students use their bodies, what's going through their heads. I can anticipate where they're about to make a mistake, and help them not get hurt. I can show them little things that might go wrong, and how to avoid that. I can teach them what to do, WHEN something goes wrong, because it will.

I've met quite a few magicians who say they know all about "sideshow tricks", but don't know which end of a nail to stick in their nose. When all of your material involves trickery, trickery becomes the only world you can see. It's very cynical, has no element of wonder. Without wonder, they are very poor.

Some of the stunts I do, are traditional standards. Some are not. Some of my stunts are widely copied. Some, no one else does. Always, my routines are my own.

Guts have nothing to do with this, except for performers whose show is essentially bragging about what they can do. They do not interest me.

I teach basic skills to beginners. Advanced skills, I discuss only with very experienced performers. To be a beginner, in my class, requires previous performing experience. You must have vocabulary, in order to make sentences. You must be able to make sentences, to tell a story.

Good performance does not involve doing someone else's show. My students learn to create their own scripts. You can find performers I've taught, coached, or consulted with, on 6 continents. Some of them are the NOW generation, some are the next. I'm pretty excited to see what some of them are doing.

Am I elitist? Skeleton, you were a child, when I started performing. I've appeared on a couple of hundred television shows, aired in about 90 countries, with about a billion viewers. I know a lot of the major players in this genre. I know which ones are interesting, and which do the same old stuff. People hire me to perform, because I'm good at what I do. They know they're going to get their money's worth. I've been told I'm some kind of an expert. Sure! Why not? But elitist?
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Michael K
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"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." ~Albert Einstein

While we joke around online, we are very serious about teaching. This section of the Café has seen many people whom no one has ever met or heard about, directly and boldly ask for secrets about very dangerous stunts. The Escape section has recently seen too. Sometimes our jokes and internal jabs, do get intermingled with real answers and real interaction. There isn't any way to read body language, tone, inflection, and so many other cues which are so important in personal communication, text messages may be misinterpreted. This is one of the problems of a text based forum and a huge problem with email.

I've an very lucky and very proud to have been and continue to be a student of Harley Newman. Working with Harley has been the best thing that has happened to me as a performer. Anyone who passes on the opportunity to work with him is sadly missing a rare and immeasurable gift. He is the best.

Michael
thegreatnippulini
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Quote:
On 2010-08-17 14:42, Harley Newman wrote:
We're not discussing double-lifts.


I've done double lifts.... I HAVE to. If I only did a single lift my show would be very short.

:)

(from the guy who basically tells his audience how great his abilities are)
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Kondini
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I am elitist, so much so I would never mix with the riff raff on here,,,in fact Im so elitist I wouldn`t even dream of talking to myself.

So there.

Ken.
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