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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Knots and loops » » Magnets and ropes (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Isaiah
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Two questions.

One where can I buy magnets to place into ropes?

Two, does anyone know how to properly make the magnets in ropes? Is there a document or video out there?


Thanks
magicians
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There's the Delben rope gimmick, I believe that's the barrel screw. Then there are a few types of magnets, you really want the magnet with knurled sides, not the smooth, unless your glue is good.
The newer magnets seem to be too strong but that depends upon your purposes.
There is a tutorial on how to do magnets, on another post on this site.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Isaiah
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So where can I buy those specific magnets?
Brian Tanner
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Quote:
On 2010-08-19 09:35, Isaiah wrote:
So where can I buy those specific magnets?


Try here: http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=13

Scroll down to check out different sizes.

For installing them check out this blog. You may have to scroll down for it. : http://escamoteur.de/wordpress/index.php......mment-52
Isaiah
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Thnaks a bunch!!!
magicians
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What are you trying to make...linking ropes is on $7.50
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Isaiah
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I am going to make flash restoration PAVEL. He wants like 70.00 fo rit and I know it doesn't cost that much to make it. I am sure I can put a magnet into a rope. It may take me a few trys to get it perfect, but 70.00...come on
magicians
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Quote:
On 2010-08-19 14:36, Isaiah wrote:
I am going to make flash restoration PAVEL. He wants like 70.00 fo rit and I know it doesn't cost that much to make it. I am sure I can put a magnet into a rope. It may take me a few trys to get it perfect, but 70.00...come on

I have tried to make linking ropes with various magnets and rope and I just buy them now instead. Part of the $70 is product warranty and of course $10 worth of very well made rope and $60 worth of intellectual property.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Isaiah
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I don't disagree, but I can buy 4 .45cent magnets and a 5.00 spool of rope and make one as well and save my self at least 64.00...hmm I think I will go that route for now. I looove Pavels rope magic and have bought several pieces, but his prices recently went up and it is becoming a little ridiculous.
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So, what price would be better? Prices on magic have been dictated by distribution. I find that magic creators seem to want to sell to magic companies and Jack up the price so they still make a lot of money when they sell thru the distributor. If not, Pavel pricing must have its justification.
On an item like Pavel sells, there is labor intensive and quality level to maintain. As I said, rope+magnet = more work than you think. Then, of course, in the middle of your act, when the glue gives way, you will probably see why it was better to pay the price. (I thought Pavel uses snaps?)
The price for the flash rope effect is also dictated by the fact that it is not as popular as the basic effect, so there is no volume on the item.
Of course, no matter how low the price gets, a magician will still try to make their own. I sell my match pulls for $3 and its still knocked off (until theirs fails in a show).
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Isaiah
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I am not necessarily saying he shouldnt charge that as his props are quality, but I am not willing to pay for that any more, knowing how little magnets and ropes cost. I am willing to put some sweat equity into making them and become proficient at making my own. I am not trying to make them to "knock" off his product, but to instead make them for my own personal use.
Frank Douglas
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In doing so, you deprive the creator of the effect of monies rightfully due.

JM2CW

Cheers
Frank
Isaiah
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How??? I am not selling any items I am making them for myself. So are you saying no one has the right to make their own magic items?? BS!!
Brian Tanner
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On 2010-08-20 08:00, Frank Douglas wrote:
In doing so, you deprive the creator of the effect of monies rightfully due.

JM2CW

Cheers
Frank


Pavel teaches this effect on his Creative Magic DVD Vol2. If the OP purchased the DVD, would he not be well within his rights to make his own, unless otherwise stipulated?
Frank Douglas
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If he has purchased the DVD and PAVEL teches how to MAKE the materials he would.

This is the last I'll post on ethics here... I'm not going to go round about on it.

There is a difference between having the skill to do something or the moral right to do something. Both very different.

Cheers
Frank
Isaiah
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Morale right do do something..please Its common knowledge to make magnetic ropes. You are acting as if it is a highly guarded secret that we all owe it to Pavel to buy his products.

Posted: Aug 20, 2010 12:15pm
PAVEL does not own the rights to magnetic ropes!
magicians
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On 2010-08-20 12:15, Isaiah wrote:
PAVEL does not own the rights to magnetic ropes!!

Don't get excited, but just because you know how Pavel's effect or variation works and you are capable of making the effect, does not give you the right to do it for personal use. You can, of course, do whatever you wish, as there are no Magic police around to enforce it. What should not be done, is tell anyone else, especially on a magic forum consisting of magicians who support the creation process.

There is something called free-ware in software where you can tithe to the software author and support him. This is not the case with magic. Just because you can, and feel justified by your rationale that you are not taking Pavel's income, does not make this an ethical choice.
The right choice is a simple one. If you didn't think of it, it is not yours to do, duplicate, or make for yourself. Either buy it or admire it, or (in the case of a DVD) make it with the proper specs.
Yes, there are things like Professors nightmare that have gone into the realm of Public domain, but, that is not the case here.
There is the brainchild of the creator of an effect. His right to sell something overpriced or not. There is not the right of everyone else to make it just because they can.
It is done, but it is not correct. If you do it, keep it to yourself.
The web has hundreds of "magicians" who find out the secret, and then publish that secret on a site. I can't understand that need at all. Usually, that is someone who actually teaches the wrong method.

If Pavel gave a lecture and showed how to make and perform the item, then as a viewer you would have the right to use and make the item.
I have over 32 effects on the market over the years, and about half were copied. Even that is not enforceable.
Your rationale that you are not selling it and therefore not depriving Pavel of income is in error. He lost $70 by not selling you yours.
That is my rant. Good luck making it.

I had only asked you what you were doing with the magnets, as I have several magnet effects and always in the market for someone who can make a good magnetic set.

WOW!!!
One last thing. I just googled Pavel Flash Restoration, and this Magiccafe.com conversation was listed on the page. THAT is how money is lost.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Isaiah
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Well I actually own Pavels creative magic volumes and I forgot his magnet rope creation method is on there. I am now reviewing that as well for creation o fmy own magnetic ropes. Like you said "magicians" in an earlier post

"I have tried to make linking ropes with various magnets and rope and I just buy them now instead".

I guess we have all tried this or will sometime in our life. *** Magnets
mtpascoe
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I own the DVD "The Creative Magic of Pavel". He explains to Michael Ammar how to attach the magnets, but he goes so fast, I can't catch everything he says. I wish that Ammar would have repeated it for the cameras and slowed it down. I don't know what kind of glue he used for the first step. It was Scotch brand in a tube, but he did not say what kind.

He also said to put the glue inside of the rope, then around and proceeded to pantomime squirting the glue around the outside of the rope. Is that where the glue goes, or does he mean around in the inside? Now, he did say to use Super Glue at the end, but did not say where to put the one drop.

If anyone has the DVD and knows how to attached the magnets, I would appreciate it.
Dr_J_Ayala
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I just have to put a little seed for thought into this post regarding the making of existing or pre-existing props for personal use; this will not have anything specifically to do with the Pavel set, which I do own and LOVE! I will never mind paying large sums of money for true QUALITY and craftsmanship. This is especially true when I know that if I buy a product and it fails, I can go to the creator/manufacturer, have a conversation about what happened, and get a repair or replacement without jumping through a bunch of hoops and getting a runaround about why nothing can be done. That being said:

If you have seen/handled a manufactured magic prop and know you can make the same prop/gimmick in better quality, is that still denying creators of monies rightfully due, and at that point, are there really "monies rightfully due"? Quality here is the issue.

If you buy a prop/gimmick/effect (no matter the expense) and it was so poorly made/manufactured that it broke/failed in no time at all, and you decided to make your own in better quality solely for personal use, who was truly screwed at that point? Was it the creator being screwed out of money for something they created and manufactured, or was it the consumer being misled into paying whatever price the product was sold for? You have paid for it once, you should not have to do it twice, especially for a poor product.

I say this because I have seen many props in the past, even some from the biggest names in our art, that were so poorly made that just about anyone could have done a better job. That is not to say that all products from those bigger names, none of whom will be mentioned here, are junk, or that their ideas are not great. There have been eons of magic products whose plot and idea was absolutely wonderful and astounding, but the quality of the gimmicks/props were not.

Again, this is all a seed for thought. Any and all thoughts on my two cents are welcome.
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