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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » I just realized, there is no "Magic secret".... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Pakar Ilusi
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While reading some great posts here, I just realized that there is no such thing as a "Magic Secret"...

Just passion, skill and presentation. It is an art form like any other.

The "secret methods"? They're not secret. Anyone can buy them. Just order online or go to your nearest Magic Shop... Or watch youtube... ("Did he just say that?" Smile )

I dunno why, but that just struck me so vividly... That after 20 years of doing Magic. Smile

There is no secret to this.

Smile



Posted: Aug 25, 2010 5:03am
----------------------------------
So why post this here?

Because I suddenly had the realization that if there are no "secrets", then there can be no "exposure" as well...

Follow my logic okay...

If we Magicians are all okay with Magic Shops, Dealers and Inventors selling methods to literally anyone and everyone who will pay, then we can't complain if someone wants to give it out for free once he has bought it... We sold it to someone, what they do with it is beyond our control really... As is the case now...

But we get all worked up when it is "exposed for free" for the world to see...

But who sold it to them? "We" did... (I know, it wasn't really YOU personally but I'm speaking of the Professional Magic Dealer Community etc...)

Asking them to keep it a "Secret" is akin to "schoolgirl gossiping"... "Shhh, did you know who is goin' out with who, doin' what? If I tell you, don't tell anyone ok?" Smile Really, think about it...

And here's the point I'm arriving at...

People will want to tell others just because it's a "Secret"!

Others will want to know just because it's a "Secret"!

Look at The MM Exposures and Youtube videos... "Look, look, I have something no one else but a certain few know, "Magic Secrets"!

If we don't call it or treat it like it's such a big deal, if we don't call it a "Secret", people will treat it as it should be... Methods employed to achieve Effects. If you think about it, that really is all it is with our methods...

We won't lose sleep as we know it is passion, skill and presentation that we are working towards. In other words... Who cares if they know how it's done? Because...

There are no "Secrets"...


But that's what I think... Smile

Smile



Posted: Aug 27, 2010 1:21am
----------------------------------
No responses? Strange...

What do you think? Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
RichardShure
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Good Epiphany
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Specious logic. So, why not make every magic performance include full disclosure if there is no harm???
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Olympic Adam
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We make the secrets.

Simple methods and objects presented in an impossible way, then don't tell anyone what happened Smile
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2010-08-27 08:21, mandarin wrote:
Specious logic. So, why not make every magic performance include full disclosure if there is no harm???


You miss my point. That would be non entertaining, not to mention tedious. The CGI folks at Industrial Light and Magic don't include a tutorial of Computer Graphics after you see the Dinosaurs in their movies, why should we? Smile Just because there are no secrets doesn't mean I'm going to spoon feed them, they can find it themselves...

This is more for our "inner talk"... Just do Magic as usual but with no "worries" whatsoever(if you had any in the first place.)

If they say they know how, just smile and nod. There are no secrets remember?

If they ask how it's done, just politely say "Here's my card/number, I give lessons"... Smile Or point them to your nearest Magic Shop... Either way, Magic wins.

I find this realization so very "liberating"...

But maybe it's just me...

Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2010-08-27 08:24, Olympic Adam wrote:
We make the secrets.

Simple methods and objects presented in an impossible way, then don't tell anyone what happened Smile


So we just don't, tell them the methods! Smile

Just don't tell them then and there. And don't do it for free! Give lessons. If they say they can find it for free, so be it. They really could actually, there are no secrets...

Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Pakar Ilusi
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On 2010-08-27 08:01, RichardShure wrote:
Good Epiphany


Yes, if I say so myself!

Thanks! Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Pakar Ilusi
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Wanna expand or discuss this?

Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
the Sponge
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Quote:
On 2010-08-30 10:08, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Wanna expand or discuss this?

This has been expanded and discussed numerous times in numerous threads on the Café.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2010-08-30 10:49, the Sponge wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-08-30 10:08, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Wanna expand or discuss this?

This has been expanded and discussed numerous times in numerous threads on the Caf�.


Aawww... Schucks!
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Mr. Mystoffelees
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Quote:
On 2010-08-27 10:10, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-08-27 08:21, mandarin wrote:
Specious logic. So, why not make every magic performance include full disclosure if there is no harm???


You miss my point. That would be non entertaining, not to mention tedious. The CGI folks at Industrial Light and Magic don't include a tutorial of Computer Graphics after you see the Dinosaurs in their movies, why should we? Smile Just because there are no secrets doesn't mean I'm going to spoon feed them, they can find it themselves...

This is more for our "inner talk"... Just do Magic as usual but with no "worries" whatsoever(if you had any in the first place.)

If they say they know how, just smile and nod. There are no secrets remember?

If they ask how it's done, just politely say "Here's my card/number, I give lessons"... Smile Or point them to your nearest Magic Shop... Either way, Magic wins.

I find this realization so very "liberating"...

But maybe it's just me...

Smile


Pakar-

I don't think it is just you, nor that I missed your point. I have had the very same feeling. I just think it does not hold up to logical analysis. To me, magicians, who are attempting to use something they love to entertain others, have more right to "secrets" than most others. After all, unless we become "charlatans" it is all for a pure reason.

I truly feel that if everybody knew everything, our art would become juggling or cease to exist. I am at peace with the "information age" whatever that means, but I have no need at all to go around telling those I meet all the things it has taken me a lifetime to learn...

I am glad your "apostrophe" gives you good feelings, and am looking for some of those myself... If I trounced on your tulips, please forgive...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
alpha alex
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Quote:
On 2010-08-25 05:03, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
So why post this here?


If we Magicians are all okay with Magic Shops, Dealers and Inventors selling methods to literally anyone and everyone who will pay, then we can't complain if someone wants to give it out for free once he has bought it... We sold it to someone, what they do with it is beyond our control really... As is the case now...



well.. I do have a problem if a 12 year old gives out the secret of a gimmick or a routine I just bought. then again I really don't think magic depends on the ¨secrets¨
must people don't care about trully finding out how we do our stuff.. so we are sort of safe..
Pakar Ilusi
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No worries mandarin, my tulips are fine... I do see your point, really... Just that a great performance always trumps an exposure. It's not the secret, it's the presentation that gets them. Anyway, that's my angle on it...

alpha alex, there isn't anything really that can stop it. However, it is not the method that's the secret, it's the passion, skill and presentation... Smile

Imho...

Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
truthteller
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Quote:
On 2010-08-30 13:18, mandarin wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-08-27 10:10, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-08-27 08:21, mandarin wrote:
Specious logic. So, why not make every magic performance include full disclosure if there is no harm???


You miss my point. That would be non entertaining, not to mention tedious. The CGI folks at Industrial Light and Magic don't include a tutorial of Computer Graphics after you see the Dinosaurs in their movies, why should we? Smile Just because there are no secrets doesn't mean I'm going to spoon feed them, they can find it themselves...

This is more for our "inner talk"... Just do Magic as usual but with no "worries" whatsoever(if you had any in the first place.)

If they say they know how, just smile and nod. There are no secrets remember?

If they ask how it's done, just politely say "Here's my card/number, I give lessons"... Smile Or point them to your nearest Magic Shop... Either way, Magic wins.

I find this realization so very "liberating"...

But maybe it's just me...

Smile


Pakar-

I don't think it is just you, nor that I missed your point. I have had the very same feeling. I just think it does not hold up to logical analysis. To me, magicians, who are attempting to use something they love to entertain others, have more right to "secrets" than most others. After all, unless we become "charlatans" it is all for a pure reason.

I truly feel that if everybody knew everything, our art would become juggling or cease to exist. I am at peace with the "information age" whatever that means, but I have no need at all to go around telling those I meet all the things it has taken me a lifetime to learn...

I am glad your "apostrophe" gives you good feelings, and am looking for some of those myself... If I trounced on your tulips, please forgive...


I have seen dancing canes where the thread was invisible and the effect was dull and uninteresting. I once saw a performance artist present a dancing arrow using a very visible thread and it was one of the most magical things I ever saw - the thread disappeared.

If all you have to offer is secrets and "how did he do that" then you are correct.

But if your magic resonates. If it speaks to something beyond mere deception - then people stop CARING about your secrets and often prefer to remain in the dark so as not to spoil the experience.
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Would it be reasonable, therefore, to infer you are positing that if "everybody knew everything" magic would enjoy the same popularity it does now? If so, I can not agree...
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Pakar Ilusi
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Literally, "if everybody knew everything" is not possible... Even Magicians don't know "everything"...

However, figuratively, they already do imo...

Maybe not "how" exactly each time, but that it's "a trick" nonetheless...

You can thank the MM for that...

However, passion, skill and presentation wins every time imho...
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Playing along, there is a huge difference between "knowing what" and "knowing how." This is true of most things: baking a cake, running a business, fixing a car, rasing a kid ...

The real secrets are the "how" part but we pretend that the "what" is a secret to throw off the lookie-loos. You could hand out TT's like a business acrd to everyone in the audience and then say, "Some magcians use gimmicks like this instead of learning a finer magic." Then proceed to do a Thumbtip Blendo and blow them away.

In reality it is often difficult to distinguish between the What and the How, so for safety reveal nothing until a person has proved his "wothiness" -- whatever that means to you.

From another view, there is little danger in revealing the secret to a "trick," but great danger to the art in revealing the secret to the "effect." The strange properties of a magnet are no longer a secret -- but the fact that magicians use them in so many ways is a secret -- and should be.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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Pakar Ilusi
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I agree to a certain extent, just would not call it "dangerous"...

Its just that I feel giving it away for free is frowned upon more by the majority in the Magic Community.

As soon as you slap a price tag on a trick, then it's selling and/or teaching which is fine with everyone suddenly...

Anyway, anyone and everyone can buy any of it 99% of the time, hence my saying there is no "Magic Secret" really...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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I agree, no magic secrets. Emphasize the art. Exposure is determined by who and how many and not right and wrong.

If it is okay for magic shops to give away secrets for free but no one else then you have opened the flood gates so to speak.

Why worry about secrets when you cannot control who has them and what they do with them. A good entertainer entertains. A secret in magic has no more value than a dance step in ballet or a chord in music.

Just because you take piano lessons does not make you an entertainer.
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If you offer them more than secrets, they won't care about the secrets. If all you have to offer is secrets, then don't be surprised that they want to know.

Stop worrying about the exposers and start thinking about what you are offering.
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