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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » I just realized, there is no "Magic secret".... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Pakar Ilusi
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True that. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Dannydoyle
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Does ANYONE think that too many audience members over the age of say...10 actually believes magic is real or it is a trick? I think magicians think people are this dumb, but they are not.

Ok so people are hip to the fact that there IS a method.

So they know it is a trick, now you have to make them not give a hoot. You have to give them more than a secret, you have to give them a presentation.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2010-08-25 03:38, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
While reading some great posts here, I just realized that there is no such thing as a "Magic Secret"...


Just what are we doing here? If we don't understand even the most basic and facile approximation of what makes a thing magical versus a mere puzzle... what is this place to us?

Why do we use the chef's term "presentation" - as if stupidity or impudence served flambe or with a nice garnish would make the inedible somehow nutritious?

What do we expect a "secret" in magic to be? A way for us to remain just how and who we are to ourselves yet somehow (like by magic?) become able to safely elicit the experience of magic in others?

The means by which one can bring the experience of magic to others needs to be invisible and inconceivable to our audiences during a performance for obvious reasons.

Please let them have what fairies they imagine when they see what we know to be fireflies and let whatever nonsense we introduce to amuse them be of the sort they later wish to have us repeat so their friends can enjoy and they can enjoy watching their friends enjoy.

Let there be magic. If you so choose, be a magician. Let your audiences tell you what works for you and from that create your own brand of magic that audiences will return to savor.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Pakar Ilusi
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Hmm.. I think I agree with JT, it's just that I don't really know for sure if what I understand to be his point is really his point.

Anyway, it is MY epiphany... Even if it is late in the game, gimme my moment to relish it. It might be obvious to you, but still...

Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Jonathan Townsend
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You're getting closer. Here's the version folks understood five hundred years ago with regards to one's vain illusions about how things like secrets, plans and destinies look from outside:

"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

Maybe someone will write an ebook in outline form explaining Shakespeare to magicians that will generate demand for a hardcover volume and video set using magic shop tricks to accompany the Swan of Avon's sage advice to his players.

PS don't mess with Epiphany - her father may throw a cup at you. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Wizard of Oz
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As long as there's something that can't be explained, there can be magic.

Or,

Show me something that can't be explained, and I can show you magic.

Simple words, yet, as civilization progresses, so does the challenge of magic.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2010-09-06 21:47, Wizard of Oz wrote:
As long as there's something that can't be explained, there can be magic.

Or,

Show me something that can't be explained, and I can show you magic.

Simple words, yet, as civilization progresses, so does the challenge of magic.


Something that can't be explained?

William Hung's success, now that's Magic... Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
J.Warrens
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There are no secrets (save that which the government keeps from you LOL.)

That IS the real secret isn't it?

Our effects are merely lifeless puppets. It is our job to dress them up and give them a story - to give them life.

The real secret is US.

I suggest spending an entire weekend with Jeff McBride or Eugene Burger etc.

They radiate magic - and their lives are filled with magic. So much so, that it's hard to not "feel" it. It's in their presence. Burger can mesmerize an entire room within seconds just with his opening lines before he even begins an effect.

Nobody is surprised upon meeting them, when they discover that they are magicians. It's one of those "of course you are!" moments.

The real secret is us.

Are you REALLY a magician or are you just trying to get me to buy you a drink?

Cheers.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2010-09-18 04:27, J.Warrens wrote:
There are no secrets (save that which the government keeps from you LOL.)

That IS the real secret isn't it?

Our effects are merely lifeless puppets. It is our job to dress them up and give them a story - to give them life.

The real secret is US.

I suggest spending an entire weekend with Jeff McBride or Eugene Burger etc.

They radiate magic - and their lives are filled with magic. So much so, that it's hard to not "feel" it. It's in their presence. Burger can mesmerize an entire room within seconds just with his opening lines before he even begins an effect.

Nobody is surprised upon meeting them, when they discover that they are magicians. It's one of those "of course you are!" moments.

The real secret is us.

Are you REALLY a magician or are you just trying to get me to buy you a drink?

Cheers.


Smile Great post!


But a drink would be nice... Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Jonathan Townsend
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Someone just distracted from a discussion on the distinction between how we bring the experience of magic to people, what they need to know/not know at that time and how some things need to be 'secret' for as long as the experience is to seem "magical".

Their name and excuse for doing so will remain a secret for the moment.

Just another secret in magic. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Cyberqat
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This is an interesting ides Parkar, and as one who was trained in computer graphics for the film industry, a thought I've tossed out in the past.

Everyone knows that the dinosaur is created by a computer and drawn on the film, but people are still entertained to watch it. They still suspend disbelief because they *want* to believe it for 90 minutes.

So maybe secrets *aren't* as important as like to think they are...
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
Jonathan Townsend
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Funny - IMHO the dinosaur that made the best impression was pretty much entirely drawn by hand. Have a look at Gertie the Dinosaur and the show that went with it. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
panlives
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Quote:
On 2010-09-05 20:16, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-08-25 03:38, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
While reading some great posts here, I just realized that there is no such thing as a "Magic Secret"...


Just what are we doing here? If we don't understand even the most basic and facile approximation of what makes a thing magical versus a mere puzzle... what is this place to us?

Why do we use the chef's term "presentation" - as if stupidity or impudence served flambe or with a nice garnish would make the inedible somehow nutritious?

What do we expect a "secret" in magic to be? A way for us to remain just how and who we are to ourselves yet somehow (like by magic?) become able to safely elicit the experience of magic in others?

The means by which one can bring the experience of magic to others needs to be invisible and inconceivable to our audiences during a performance for obvious reasons.

Please let them have what fairies they imagine when they see what we know to be fireflies and let whatever nonsense we introduce to amuse them be of the sort they later wish to have us repeat so their friends can enjoy and they can enjoy watching their friends enjoy.

Let there be magic. If you so choose, be a magician. Let your audiences tell you what works for you and from that create your own brand of magic that audiences will return to savor.


How well said!
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2010-09-20 16:50, Cyberqat wrote:
This is an interesting ides Parkar, and as one who was trained in computer graphics for the film industry, a thought I've tossed out in the past.

Everyone knows that the dinosaur is created by a computer and drawn on the film, but people are still entertained to watch it. They still suspend disbelief because they *want* to believe it for 90 minutes.

So maybe secrets *aren't* as important as like to think they are...


You see my point right? It is entertainment above all. There are many secrets in performing Magic, it's just not the technique.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
funsway
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Last week I posted a mental-magic effect called "Close Call" -- not a trick, but a demonstration of a little known phenomenon. There is no secret and everyhting is explained to the audience, yet the impact on the spectators is profound and develops a high degree of respect and trust on which other effects can be built.

So the "secret" is that no magic or mentalism effect can be successful unless you have trust and focused attention. The effect works because it uses fear in a second-hand manner in which each spectator imagines themselves as the subject of the demonstration. Revealing this secret might destroy the impact of the effect, as will seeing it performed more than once.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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Mr. Mystoffelees
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Quote:
On 2010-09-21 06:18, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-09-20 16:50, Cyberqat wrote:
This is an interesting ides Parkar, and as one who was trained in computer graphics for the film industry, a thought I've tossed out in the past.

Everyone knows that the dinosaur is created by a computer and drawn on the film, but people are still entertained to watch it. They still suspend disbelief because they *want* to believe it for 90 minutes.

So maybe secrets *aren't* as important as like to think they are...


You see my point right? It is entertainment above all. There are many secrets in performing Magic, it's just not the technique.


Pakar- Did you mean to say "It's not just the technique"?

I agree there is way more than technique to magic, but do not agree with the growing number of "magicians" who seem to imply technique is not important. No wonder magic is considered by some to be a lesser form of entertainment...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
funsway
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I read it as the technique does not have to be secret in order to be effective. WHile said technique might be a lesser part of the "magic" as perceived by an audience, without proper technique there is no continuity nor predictability. It's like saying there is no secret that there is plywood under your hardwood floor, but without it your expensive floor would buckle. Yet, the highly polished parquet gets the oohs and aahs instead of the underlayment.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Jonathan Townsend
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Magic without secrets is like cheerleading without a team.
how about mascot competitions while we're at it?
who needs function when form can be so distracting?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2010-09-23 09:37, mandarin wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-09-21 06:18, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-09-20 16:50, Cyberqat wrote:
This is an interesting ides Parkar, and as one who was trained in computer graphics for the film industry, a thought I've tossed out in the past.

Everyone knows that the dinosaur is created by a computer and drawn on the film, but people are still entertained to watch it. They still suspend disbelief because they *want* to believe it for 90 minutes.

So maybe secrets *aren't* as important as like to think they are...


You see my point right? It is entertainment above all. There are many secrets in performing Magic, it's just not the technique.


Pakar- Did you mean to say "It's not just the technique"?

I agree there is way more than technique to magic, but do not agree with the growing number of "magicians" who seem to imply technique is not important. No wonder magic is considered by some to be a lesser form of entertainment...


Nope, I meant it the way I typed it. There are lots of secrets in Magic. It is not the technique of how to achieve the Illusion though. That is already out there being sold or exposed freely. It certainly is important, it's just not a secret anymore.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Mr. Mystoffelees
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If you have no technique... you have no magic. You have someone trying to "entertain" who likely can't sing, can't dance, and is not particularly funny. The one thing they should be able to do, you likely paid for them to do, is superb magic. As I said, a lesser form of entertainment. Sorry to disagree...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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