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Tony45
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I was searching for dice threads and saw this one and I almost fell out of my chair laughing and decided to throw this out for you guys.


Let me give a brief bio of myself : I started in magic in the mid 70s till about 81-82 more or less. In 82 I went to work as a crap and 21 dealer in the NY city area, I was taught by a friend of mine on the job, so to speak. I worked under ground for 6 years till I moved to Vegas in 88 and am still a crap, 21, roulette dealer. Now this shot cant possibly work and I have seen literally 100,s try it, lol. The main reason is the alligator, the thing on the back wall with all the grooves and it ends near the bottom of the table with a sharp lip that would negate anything you tried to throw at it. Trust me, I tried for years to : GET IT ON ! lol

Now before I learned to deal I had bought all the books I could find on dice and learned to switch,palm and thumb. The drop shot, the spin shot, the greek shot, the blanket roll, etc.. I did a lot of things I'm not proud of but I attribute it to being young and stupid, whatever. I also had a very good teacher who was an old time mechanic/magician/shylock, lol. I miss him to this day, name was Tao.
Anyway, I worked all sorts of games back there, cash games, Vegas style games, chop games, I did very well, especially for a kid. Well, I'm working this game for this guy I had worked for on and off for a while and he had games running 6 nights a week, 5 nights a week in the Jewsish synagagues,different ones and the friday night game was in a Catholic church and he never got popped and this went on for years ! Shows you the power of Religion, eh ? lol. Anyway, our crap tables were take apart style meaning they were like boxes on top of a double sided folding table, its tough for me to describe so I'm not going to try, anyway on these tables the alligator didn't go all the way to the bottom, it stopped about 4 inches short and didn't have the curved lip as the Vegas tables all do ! I used to fool around before we opened throwing the greek shot at it and connecting a good part of the time. So one friday night at the Church, I'm on the stick and this guy who I never saw before and was standing on my left gets the dice and bets 11/12 for $10 each and shakes the dice and shoots and my eyes almost bugged out ! He was using the lock grip which caught my eye right away because of the outstretched knuckles and the sound and I watched the dice hit the bottom perfectly, he held up a 6 and the other one went flying ! I started smiling and watched what he did next, placed the 8,9,10 and bet the 11/12. I forget what the rolls were as this was a long time ago but after the third shot I whispered to him "that's the greatest shot I ever saw". The guy almost turned white ! He looked at me and I knew what he was thinking, but I said its all right, do what you got to do. And he did ! So I go on break and we had a long table with coffee and cake and he came over 5 mins later and we made small talk, he said I was the first guy to ever spot him and thanked me for not turning him in or making a wave. I laughed and said something like birds of a feather should stick together, lol. He came back regular after that and I always got a little present from him. Nice guy.
I got a lot of stories about those times and I got to say those were the best times I ever had.
But any of these guys who tell you they can control dice on a regular table, the only way that's going to happen is if they don't hit the wall and slide them and I caught a few of those mopes also. I might as well mention that I was one of those mopes myself who took the shot in AC quite a few times till I got a little heat and figured this aint worth it.

Oh, before I forget, there were two supply houses in Manhattan back then that I would pick tuff up from, paper, T,s, whatever. One was on 8th ave inbetween 36th and 37th or 37th and 38th, and one was on w39th between 8th and 9th. The one guy I used to know was called Abe or Abie at the place on 8th, he was in his late 70,s or early 80,s back then and he used to tell me stories once in a while after I was introduced to him. Does anyone here remember either of those places ? I have been looking for a set of drug store 2-3-6,s to use in a routine I'm working on and cant find anyone who deals online.

Sorry to ramble on but this seems like the place to tell war stories and I got tons, lol.
Dannydoyle
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I have a question. I know the guy on that web site had written a book "How to Beat the Craps Out of the Casinos" (I believe that was the title.

I always thought of him as a story teller. Every time I saw him he never managed to back up anything he said, and much of what he said made no mathmatical sense in the least.

I want to understand, are people saying the system is good or bad. (Just to clarify I am sorry.) I know at some point the discussion is about "dice setting" vs. "controled throws" right? So would someone with more smarts than I (which from what I can tell is ANYONE who has posted so far.) sort of run a summary?

I was just curious if Frank was actually a charlitan or not.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
iamslow
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Quote:
On 2010-11-25 02:36, Tony45 wrote:
I was searching for dice threads and saw this one and I almost fell out of my chair laughing and decided to throw this out for you guys.


Let me give a brief bio of myself : I started in magic in the mid 70s till about 81-82 more or less. In 82 I went to work as a crap and 21 dealer in the NY city area, I was taught by a friend of mine on the job, so to speak. I worked under ground for 6 years till I moved to Vegas in 88 and am still a crap, 21, roulette dealer. Now this shot cant possibly work and I have seen literally 100,s try it, lol. The main reason is the alligator, the thing on the back wall with all the grooves and it ends near the bottom of the table with a sharp lip that would negate anything you tried to throw at it. Trust me, I tried for years to : GET IT ON ! lol

Now before I learned to deal I had bought all the books I could find on dice and learned to switch,palm and thumb. The drop shot, the spin shot, the greek shot, the blanket roll, etc.. I did a lot of things I'm not proud of but I attribute it to being young and stupid, whatever. I also had a very good teacher who was an old time mechanic/magician/shylock, lol. I miss him to this day, name was Tao.
Anyway, I worked all sorts of games back there, cash games, Vegas style games, chop games, I did very well, especially for a kid. Well, I'm working this game for this guy I had worked for on and off for a while and he had games running 6 nights a week, 5 nights a week in the Jewsish synagagues,different ones and the friday night game was in a Catholic church and he never got popped and this went on for years ! Shows you the power of Religion, eh ? lol. Anyway, our crap tables were take apart style meaning they were like boxes on top of a double sided folding table, its tough for me to describe so I'm not going to try, anyway on these tables the alligator didn't go all the way to the bottom, it stopped about 4 inches short and didn't have the curved lip as the Vegas tables all do ! I used to fool around before we opened throwing the greek shot at it and connecting a good part of the time. So one friday night at the Church, I'm on the stick and this guy who I never saw before and was standing on my left gets the dice and bets 11/12 for $10 each and shakes the dice and shoots and my eyes almost bugged out ! He was using the lock grip which caught my eye right away because of the outstretched knuckles and the sound and I watched the dice hit the bottom perfectly, he held up a 6 and the other one went flying ! I started smiling and watched what he did next, placed the 8,9,10 and bet the 11/12. I forget what the rolls were as this was a long time ago but after the third shot I whispered to him "that's the greatest shot I ever saw". The guy almost turned white ! He looked at me and I knew what he was thinking, but I said its all right, do what you got to do. And he did ! So I go on break and we had a long table with coffee and cake and he came over 5 mins later and we made small talk, he said I was the first guy to ever spot him and thanked me for not turning him in or making a wave. I laughed and said something like birds of a feather should stick together, lol. He came back regular after that and I always got a little present from him. Nice guy.
I got a lot of stories about those times and I got to say those were the best times I ever had.
But any of these guys who tell you they can control dice on a regular table, the only way that's going to happen is if they don't hit the wall and slide them and I caught a few of those mopes also. I might as well mention that I was one of those mopes myself who took the shot in AC quite a few times till I got a little heat and figured this aint worth it.

Oh, before I forget, there were two supply houses in Manhattan back then that I would pick tuff up from, paper, T,s, whatever. One was on 8th ave inbetween 36th and 37th or 37th and 38th, and one was on w39th between 8th and 9th. The one guy I used to know was called Abe or Abie at the place on 8th, he was in his late 70,s or early 80,s back then and he used to tell me stories once in a while after I was introduced to him. Does anyone here remember either of those places ? I have been looking for a set of drug store 2-3-6,s to use in a routine I'm working on and cant find anyone who deals online.

Sorry to ramble on but this seems like the place to tell war stories and I got tons, lol.


I think you're full of S(-)!T ... For someone that's "apparently" a dealer since the 80's.. you're telling a story about someone placing the 8,9,and10 and holding up a six and you don't remember what rolled???? yet, you told the guy that was one of the best shots you've seen... YOu gotta be Fu(&!n Kidding me...
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Tony45
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Quote:
On 2010-11-25 12:09, iamslow wrote:

I think you're full of S(-)!T ... For someone that's "apparently" a dealer since the 80's.. you're telling a story about someone placing the 8,9,and10 and holding up a six and you don't remember what rolled???? yet, you told the guy that was one of the best shots you've seen... You gotta be Fu(&!n Kidding me...

Hey imslow, it was over 25 years ago this happened, would it have made you feel better if I said it was a 12 that rolled ? What I remember was watching the bottom die go off the wall and land an inch or two away. Try not to think too much, you're living up to your name.

Quote:
On 2010-11-25 09:06, Dannydoyle wrote:
I have a question. I know the guy on that web site had written a book "How to Beat the Craps Out of the Casinos" (I believe that was the title.

I always thought of him as a story teller. Every time I saw him he never managed to back up anything he said, and much of what he said made no mathmatical sense in the least.

I want to understand, are people saying the system is good or bad. (Just to clarify I am sorry.) I know at some point the discussion is about "dice setting" vs. "controled throws" right? So would someone with more smarts than I (which from what I can tell is ANYONE who has posted so far.) sort of run a summary?

I was just curious if Frank was actually a charlitan or not.

Danny, I have yet to see anyone make it work on a REGULATION crap table, they're designed too well to allow it to happen. Over the years I have seen a ton of guys side up to players and try to sell them on all kinds of sure fire can't miss systems and they all crow when they work for a little bit but they disappear when they don't, and I've seen more disappearing than crowing, lol.
Dannydoyle
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I have also seen my share of losers with systems, but that is simply anticdotal evidence and not really math.

I am not familiar enough with the game, and how much being able to place "odds" wagers changes it. Some places offer 100X odds and that may change things enough to eek out a small advantage on certain bets, and IF someone can "control throw" the dice enough to tip that a bit more who knows?

This is why I am wondering. My sphere of knowledge is far from complete and I was looking for a bit of an education. My "inclination" is no it is not possible, but that is not based on anything certain. It is an educated guess. I also know that just because I can not do it or figure out how it could be done by no means speaks to whether it can or can not be done.

Thanks for the response.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
iamslow
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Quote:
On 2010-11-25 13:36, Tony45 wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-11-25 12:09, iamslow wrote:

I think you're full of S(-)!T ... For someone that's "apparently" a dealer since the 80's.. you're telling a story about someone placing the 8,9,and10 and holding up a six and you don't remember what rolled? yet, you told the guy that was one of the best shots you've seen... You gotta be Fu(&!n Kidding me...

Hey imslow, it was over 25 years ago this happened, would it have made you feel better if I said it was a 12 that rolled ? What I remember was watching the bottom die go off the wall and land an inch or two away. Try not to think too much, you're living up to your name.

You are almost as good a story teller as Frank...I'm not thinking too hard, I'm just observing little things that other Bull$(-)!tters have posted here throughout the days... When you been dealing dice that long, specially in a joint??? As far as I know, if someone went up to me and told me what you told that dude, you would have gotten punched in the mouth repeatedly and mabee stomped in the head a few times... and I couldn't give a FU[K who or how big you are... the bottom line, "it's on".. I got nothing against you personally, just pointing out things I notice... the same thing I've been doing to a lot of the Bu!!s(-)itters here. The latest one I like to point out is panlives, who told me in another thread he went to a great dealing school that went beyond shuffle mechanics, yet when asked the name of the school, he all of a sudden avoids the topic and doesn't respond. I can't remember the other names from the top of my head, but there's quite a few in here over the years. That's why most of the old guys don't post here anymore. It gets to you when that much BS is floating around. sorry guys.

Posted: Nov 25, 2010 9:15pm
Oh yeah, here's the link to the other topic I was speaking of from another area here... http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=2&15
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Tony45
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Well firstly, you shouldnt try to sound like a tough guy online, only makes you look foolish. Secondly, you raise your hands in that type of place, you are going to have a serious problem and quickly. If you had the type of street smarts that you try to make yourself out to have,i wouldnt have to tell you this.
But that aside, theres nothing unbelievable in the story I told, you make it sound like I was making outlandish claims of super natural ability. I understand people tell tales, trust me, this I know real well, but this happened.
Anyway, I did read that other thread and I'm wondering myself what 'Shuffle mechanics" this guy was taught. You go to work in a hotel, you shuffle the way they tell you and that's it.
By the way, Slow, whats your claim to fame ? Betting $10 on the do and $10 on the don't and getting a point and picking up the do bet ?
Have a nice day bro.
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HI tony45, I apologize for trying to look foolish as I allready am a foolish prick...I was also kidding about the head stomp, but the punch in the mouth would likely still happen in that siuation where I worked... I should have read your post again, I forgot, you were playing in church.."there will be no fighting in church young man!"....Now that I have read your story, I now believe the story as there is nothing unbelievable about rolling a 6,x and then betting 8,9,10 and et.. but you forgot the outcome and 3 rolls later, that's the greatest roll you,ve ever seen?? which roll?? the first second or third?? or all three?? dude, I know Ive smoked a lot of wacky tabacky in my day, but was that you first day dealing dice?? I mean come on, I could shove the dice in my mouth and spit it across the table and roll 3 numbers... would you be impressed? Then you go on "break" with the guy??? then he thanks you for not being a rat?? What the Fook was the box doing?? sleeping?? what about second and third base before break??So I'm also assuming this person was winning because he was bringinging you presents?? Wait..W.T.F.??? You're allowed to accept presents at work???? And no one got jealous? ARE YOU FORKING KIDDING ME?? And no, that's not my claim to fame, because you can't pick up your ASS LINE bet once you gots a numero.... peace in the middle east...bye
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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Iamslow is legitimately pointing out that some parts of your story seem somewhat incongruent with "real life" Tony.

Note that he doesn't look foolish at all, and as a matter of fact has pointed out numerous elements of your story that, quite frankly, you seem totally unable to address with any sort of sensible answer.

If you're going to kick-in with a somewhat over the top tale, don't be so surprised when some of the regulars around call you out on some of the more "interesting" elements of your purported adventure.
Tony45
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On 2010-11-26 10:13, iamslow wrote:
HI tony45, I apologize for trying to look foolish as I allready am a foolish prick...


Well, at least we agree on something.
And you cant pick up your pass line bet after you got a point ? Gee, thanks for telling me that. As for the rest, believe what you want to, if I wanted to create a tale I could have done a lot better if I wanted to bs.
Stay well.
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Since I crave entertainment, I would love to hear more of your stories. Keep'em real as you can, and don't worry about us picking 'em apart.

I myself haven't the slightest idea of how things were back in the day. So tell your stories, please.

What is the old expression? Kill'em all and let God sort'em out?

Tony45, keep posting like the wind, and let God sort your posts out.

Of course, don't be offended if we turn on you because you've shown yourself to be an imposter. It's your risk--and hell, it's an Internet forum!, so the risk is low--so have at it.

If you're the real deal, take some time to convince us. If not, then post your fantasies. Why not? Everyone else does.

(Which is what iamslow objects to. And he's got a valid point.)

That's the lay of the land in this forum, as clear as I could make it.

You're welcome in advance!
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Quote:
On 2010-11-26 13:38, Tony45 wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-11-26 10:13, iamslow wrote:
HI tony45, I apologize for trying to look foolish as I allready am a foolish prick...


Well, at least we agree on something.
And you cant pick up your pass line bet after you got a point ? Gee, thanks for telling me that. As for the rest, believe what you want to, if I wanted to create a tale I could have done a lot better if I wanted to bs.
Stay well.


Yes, that's what everyone here agrees on... I am a prick.. and thanks for telling you about the pass line??? Dude, read your last question about my claim to fame... remember, you asked and I just answered... Or did you not know you cant pick up the pass line before my last post?? Tell us more stories please... I promise I'll leave you alone... bye



j
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Mr. Z
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I'm lost as to why some find Tony's story to be so suspect. There is nothing in there that I find hard to believe.

iamslow, read the story again, the thing with the guy throwing a shot took place AT AN ILLEGAL ROUND TABLE GAME HELD IN A CHURCH BASEMENT, so you can throw all your casino procedures, protocols, etc... out the window. They don't apply there. Was there even a boxman? Why couldn't he accept a little cash on the side for looking the other way? Are there even two base dealers?

I've dealt on those break-down tables, most are so small you either have an outside stickman and one guy working base or it's dealt the same way as a one-man tub with one dealer working inside stick and dealing base all by himself.

Also don't compare your experiences in 2010 Canada versus what was going on in NYC in the 1970s. It could be night and day.

Sadly when we get into these dick-measuring contests it only shows who can BE the bigger dick!

Posted: Nov 26, 2010 9:07pm
Also this whole notion of "if you nailed my move I'd kick your ass" goes against much of my knowledge and experiences. That is the type of thinking of a guy who's never spent time around hustlers.

I think many would agree if the guy is sharp enough to nail the move why not cut into him about doing some business, if he doesn't go for it then ok I know this spot is burned and can't come back to it.

But your mileage may vary.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
Tony45
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Let me add a last reply to this and hopefully move on. As two guys here pointed out, I should expect to be called on things if I post something, that's fine, I don't mind being called or questioned on anything, glad to in fact.The thing is don't look like a 10 year old with the name calling and the Internet tough guy routine cause frankly, its boring. Especially when it comes from someone who doesn't know left from right as it is, from someone who thinks he is going to give a beating to someone whos working in a game in NY for the simple statement of "that's the best shot I ever saw", for that youre going to crack someone in a game ? LOL, junior, don't you think it would make more sense to just look back at the guy and say " What are ya talking about?" And that's it, whole thing is over with. No, you are going to beat on a guy who just because youre naive enough to think its in a church, that the church is running it ? You wouldnt have ever made the street in one piece, that's fact.
Let me clear up a few things though and keep it civil : If you go back and re-read my story, the guy nailed himself with the lock grip as if he didn't do that I probably wouldnt have even noticed the shot , but as I pointed out, if any of you bothered to read what I wrote, that I myself fooled around practicing shots on the table myself and know what that grip looks like. Its an un-natural sound when you shake dice that way also, try it yourself and tell me. If the guy just set them and made the shot I doubt I would have noticed it.
Now also let me add what else we had going on in the room or auditorium, if you will. We ran 2 crap games, about 10 BJ,s, 2 wheels and 5-6 poker tables, we had a lot of people in there, usually between 200-300 on any given night, give or take. Now there was no break room so to speak, just a small area where whoever was on break sat at a folding table so it wasnt out of the ordinary to bs with some of the players if they sat with us for a few mins, happened all the time. So I spoke to the guy while getting coffe, big deal, we didn't stand there for the whole 20 yapping, just about 5-10 mins more or less and wehat the guy did was maybe 2-3 weeks later, he made a small score and asked me for a smoke when I was on break, nothing sinister there, but when he handed me back the pack he also handed me back HIS matches which had a folded $100 bill in it and winked at me. Hey, like I said, we all got to eat, lol.
Now I'm slow also added, what was the box and two base dealers doing ? What the hell you want them to do while this was going on if they had no clue as to the shot the guy took ? How can you act on something if you don't know it just happened ?? Clear that one up for me and even I will be impressed ! Also, to tell the truth, the boxmen we had working there had enoug of a problem just putting the cash in the box, never mind watching the game,lol, and most of the time the dealers were half high from burning one in the parking lot themselves, yours truly included.
Not for nothing, but its a simple story, no big deal really. Now if I had something like "Well one night I nailed a guy ripping in T,s or I myself had gone to game and used a control **** and won a ton", then I could see the skepticism, but this is just something I was familiar with from having read on it and practiced the moves myself so often.
But believe what you want, I'm not one for telling tales, but at least question someone with a half respectful tone at first, not like some 1/2 assed wannabe, that's all.
Btw- imslow, youre a dealer in Canada ? that's not exactly something I would brag about out in the open if you know what I mean. Canada ?? ROFl.
Oh and for the record, the pass/dont pass line remark was sarcasm which you didn't catch. You do live up to your name, don't you ?
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On 2010-11-26 20:46, Mr. Z wrote:
I'm lost as to why some find Tony's story to be so suspect. There is nothing in there that I find hard to believe.

iamslow, read the story again, the thing with the guy throwing a shot took place AT AN ILLEGAL ROUND TABLE GAME HELD IN A CHURCH BASEMENT, so you can throw all your casino procedures, protocols, etc... out the window. They don't apply there. Was there even a boxman? Why couldn't he accept a little cash on the side for looking the other way? Are there even two base dealers?

I've dealt on those break-down tables, most are so small you either have an outside stickman and one guy working base or it's dealt the same way as a one-man tub with one dealer working inside stick and dealing base all by himself.

Also don't compare your experiences in 2010 Canada versus what was going on in NYC in the 1970s. It could be night and day.

Sadly when we get into these dick-measuring contests it only shows who can BE the bigger dick!

There a lot of misunderstanding here Z, I didn't think you guys would take the beating seriously, that's why I posted again it in my second post... and said not head stomp, just a mouth punch... I'm not trying to be a tough guy, but I will stand with what I said as I've seen a dealer get punched for joking to a player that he's flashing his hole cards... again, if you read my second post, I stated that I re read Tony's original post and forgot it was a church game... Also, I wasn't trying to bust casino procedures, I'm just basing it on my experience dealing underground... As far as a boxman, My boss always sat box, because its all his money... he didn't even once get up to **** all he did was snort coke on styrofoam plates all night.... again that's just my experience... Also, all the dice joints I worked had only had one table... One place actually had a real dice table and the other dice joint, we just dealt on 4 folding tables put together and both base dealers dealt face to face which allowed us up to 20 a side... there was no back wall... dice were rolled on the table... we also used a blank felt as a layout and a piece of tape as the pass line and pennies lying around for the wrong bettors..Also mr.Z, I wasn't comparing this to 2010 Canada vs 70's NYC because I dealt dice from 95 till 2003 at the joint... And if you read his post, he said he dealt from 82-88 which makes it the 80's... not that I would have known around that time, as I didn't start my first job till 91 when I was 17... As far as believing the story completely, I don't know... but I'll leave it at that.. And as far as accepting money too look the other way, its something that just doesn't happen where I worked as I feared my boss more than any person there.. even though my boss only had one leg.

Quote:
On 2010-11-27 04:09, Tony45 wrote:
Let me add a last reply to this and hopefully move on. As two guys here pointed out, I should expect to be called on things if I post something, that's fine, I don't mind being called or questioned on anything, glad to in fact.The thing is don't look like a 10 year old with the name calling and the Internet tough guy routine cause frankly, its boring. Especially when it comes from someone who doesn't know left from right as it is, from someone who thinks he is going to give a beating to someone whos working in a game in NY for the simple statement of "that's the best shot I ever saw", for that youre going to crack someone in a game ? LOL, junior, don't you think it would make more sense to just look back at the guy and say " What are ya talking about?" And that's it, whole thing is over with. No, you are going to beat on a guy who just because youre naive enough to think its in a church, that the church is running it ? You wouldnt have ever made the street in one piece, that's fact.
Let me clear up a few things though and keep it civil : If you go back and re-read my story, the guy nailed himself with the lock grip as if he didn't do that I probably wouldnt have even noticed the shot , but as I pointed out, if any of you bothered to read what I wrote, that I myself fooled around practicing shots on the table myself and know what that grip looks like. Its an un-natural sound when you shake dice that way also, try it yourself and tell me. If the guy just set them and made the shot I doubt I would have noticed it.
Now also let me add what else we had going on in the room or auditorium, if you will. We ran 2 crap games, about 10 BJ,s, 2 wheels and 5-6 poker tables, we had a lot of people in there, usually between 200-300 on any given night, give or take. Now there was no break room so to speak, just a small area where whoever was on break sat at a folding table so it wasnt out of the ordinary to bs with some of the players if they sat with us for a few mins, happened all the time. So I spoke to the guy while getting coffe, big deal, we didn't stand there for the whole 20 yapping, just about 5-10 mins more or less and wehat the guy did was maybe 2-3 weeks later, he made a small score and asked me for a smoke when I was on break, nothing sinister there, but when he handed me back the pack he also handed me back HIS matches which had a folded $100 bill in it and winked at me. Hey, like I said, we all got to eat, lol.
Now I'm slow also added, what was the box and two base dealers doing ? What the hell you want them to do while this was going on if they had no clue as to the shot the guy took ? How can you act on something if you don't know it just happened ?? Clear that one up for me and even I will be impressed ! Also, to tell the truth, the boxmen we had working there had enoug of a problem just putting the cash in the box, never mind watching the game,lol, and most of the time the dealers were half high from burning one in the parking lot themselves, yours truly included.
Not for nothing, but its a simple story, no big deal really. Now if I had something like "Well one night I nailed a guy ripping in T,s or I myself had gone to game and used a control **** and won a ton", then I could see the skepticism, but this is just something I was familiar with from having read on it and practiced the moves myself so often.
But believe what you want, I'm not one for telling tales, but at least question someone with a half respectful tone at first, not like some 1/2 assed wannabe, that's all.
Btw- imslow, youre a dealer in Canada ? that's not exactly something I would brag about out in the open if you know what I mean. Canada ?? ROFl.
Oh and for the record, the pass/dont pass line remark was sarcasm which you didn't catch. You do live up to your name, don't you ?


Tony, first of all, now your doing the name calling and telling me I don't know left from right?? I'm lost here... As far as I understood, you called the man out... from what I learned, when you saw something, you just stfu or you call it out and **** might hit the fan with the boss... again, I'm speaking on experience dealing to bad people with lots of money and not hustlers... these guys didn't need to hustle at dice because they already walked in with bags of cash...just wanted to make it clear.. again, Im sorry as I forgot you mentioned this was in church for low stakes... the games I dealt had a limit of 100-5000 (there were a few old guys that were allowed to be 50) and it was a little more tense... I had to shut up and deal, and I know for a fact that if I made any remark, I would get slapped or at the bare minimum get yelledat..(most of the insanity came from the nammers)... I still had to be professional even though its a joint... now about your coffee break, now you explain what the guy did in this second post which I would have believed if you explained the same way in your original post... you just stated he was bringing you presents? I assumed a box with a ribbon.. As far as the box and base dealers, my apologies for assuming that they are sharp to catch on to everything... you are right, if the box is a weak and the base is weak, then who needs to even worry... the guy could have probably layed the dice down in front of him and no one would catch on and it would still be a roll... what do I know, this was in the 80's... everything happened then.. Again, I'm sorry for being a half assed wannabe... I forgot I'm in Canada eh? our casinos here are apparently dinky compared to Vegas, and our dealers suck. Yet I would like you to name any casino in Vegas right now that's packed to the tits with players from Sunday to Sunday... also if you go to my casino, our high limit room has 16 baccarat tables full everyday with players playing 9 spots at 5k a spot(that's 45k a hand!!)... I'm sure you guys got that action at your casino since it is vegas right... and why are there always head hunters from Vegas at my casino offering our players free everything just to play in Vegas?? yet we don't even give comps at my casino...lol you gotta pay for you drinks here... and yet they keep coming back here. I don't know which casino in vegas you deal at... maybe you can enlighten us. I don't get it, being a dealer in Canada is nothing to brag about, but is being a dealer in Vegas something to brag about? Are you saying Vegas dealers are better than Canadian dealers?? even though the rules and training are pretty much identical?? I dare you to prove it.. So I don't get what the rofl was all about... I don't even remember seeing any good and FAST dice dealers in Vegas nowadays. As for the pass and don't pass remark, how did I not catch it?? I know it was sarcasm, but I still answered your question just to be complete... B.T.W. I'm in the process of shopping for a house in Vegas as a rental since Vegas is making sooo much money that everyone can afford to sell their houses for half price. Maybe I'll come visit you and say hello. I'm out.
J
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Dannydoyle
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Any man who can take off his leg and hit you with it is a man to be feared.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2010-11-27 08:04, iamslow wrote:
I don't even remeber seing any good and FAST dice dealers in vegas nowadays..


Dice ain't what it used to be, hasn't been since the 70s. Very few take any pride in it anymore and I can't imagine how well they are teaching it to the break-ins now. The quality of the dealing schools has really declined too.

Plus most of your Strip dealers in the high-end joints have been there so long they get real comfy and complacent.

Go watch the old farts at Caesars lump around the table. It ain't pretty but they're still pulling down close to six figures annually.

It is always interesting to hear about other dealers from other jurisdictions outside Vegas. In the old days the AC dealers always used to brag about how much action they dealt to, yadda yadda. Same thing when Connectiut opened up. I work with a kid who started in Indiana and he's always saying how well they were trained and how crazy the games got.

But, at the end of the day, put me on a crew with some old-timers who worked table for table back in the old days. Some of these guys could draw blood from a stone.

All that said though I know the greatest craps guy around who will make anyone realize they know nothing about the game. Pretty humbling to be in his presence and get a sense of how his mind works.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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Tony45, love the name by the way! I also love the story. I also forgot to ask, if you were running 5-6 days a week (I'm assuming Sundays were off because of mass) then how did they mask the noise of having 200-300 people gambling? I was also very curious about the tables? were all the tables mini/foldable/collapsable like the dice table you mentioned in another post?? how much room did those tables(2 crap games, about 10 BJ,s, 2 wheels and 5-6 poker tables) take up?? Also, did you have to do set up and tear down every day or was the tables just left in the room and locked up??I can just imagine how crappy it would be having to set up and tear down everyday... then stacking chairs...that would suck... now I understand why you went on break with that guy, with that many tables and that many people, there's was probably no room for even the players to take a break, so they had to go on break with you,or go outside am I correct? Also what I really really wanted to know and was hoping you could answer was did you ever have a game while there was service going on upstairs/next door? If you did, how did you guys deal with parking? did anyone get any parking tickets?? did anyone get towed? Wait, did they tow cars back during that time? Also, how was the wacky tabacky back then? Anyway, I just finished work and I'm falling asleep. Till next time.

your pal,
iamslow

Quote:
On 2010-11-27 08:45, Dannydoyle wrote:
Any man who can take off his leg and hit you with it is a man to be feared.

lol, but he never wore a fake one, but he did have a cane.
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Tony45
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Slow, the Canada remark was to irritate you a little which, it apparently succeeded in doing judging from your reply, no harm meant,just firing back a little. But as Mr Z said, the difference between the crap dealers here and there is the older ones here who were crew for crew or shift for shift pit for pit, at least could make money off the players instead of standing around going "I can pay the line in 3 moves" or whatever, understand ?
Also as far as your casino not giving comps and being jammed all the time, youre the only place running in your area, correct ? Its the same situation that Resorts was in when it first opened or Foxwoods, why give anything away when your the only game in town ? Im assuming theres no other place close to you but I'm not familiar with where you are, but that's my thought on it.
Okay, now that we are at least on a semi- civil basis, I will answer what you asked.
How did we mask the noise ? When youre in a gym or the banquet room as were and away from the street, its not too tough to conceal anything but as you did point out, parking was always the main problem. We had 3 Synagagogues and 1 Church, they all had ample parking lots but not enough to hold say 250 cars, if I had to guess, I couldn't give you a definitive answer as I'm not sure what they held, but my boss did have 4 valet guys working and they would take care of peoples cars and park them a few blocks away, one place they used was a municipal parking lot and there was the college across the parkway which they made use of, which was convenient but they found places. These guys did well also and I remember the boss was always !@#$%ing about having to pay the extra expense of having them. Guy had two bags of groceries under each arm and was complaining all the time he was hungry, lol. We started at 8 at night, services in Synagogue ended early as I remember and Sunday was always in Synagogue. We got there at 7 and set up, I got paid like $20 extra at the time for being there for early set up, the tables all had the folding legs under them and they were sit down and deal, the 21,s and poker, naturally.Youre right it was a pain and everyone had to kick in at the end stacking chairs and folding tables. This guy had to have over $50,000 in just equiptment alone and he was always crying the blues but his partner who I was friends with always used to smile and say "Pay no attention to Scrooge there, if I had his money I would burn mine". lol
I don't recall anyone getting towed although people did get ticketed for bus stops constantly. Funny thing now that you reminded me, we're dealing one night and this kid goes on break and goes outside and says I'll be back in bit, which translated to the rest of us that he was going outside and down the block to burn one. So 20 mins comes and goes and he don't show,in fact he don't show up for the rest of the shift. Turns out he comes in whenever he was scheduled next and says he got pinched,lol. It was winter time and he goes down the block and right on the corner he lights up and as he put it "This cop comes from out of no where and grabs me before I can do anything and takes me in and is asking me all kinds of questions,blah, blah," He had to pay a fine or something, lol. The boss got ****ed at him for being stupid and whatnot but paid him for the night anyway. This is the kinds of intellect we had working then for us. We had a few ex -Vegas guys, guys who just wanted to make a few extra bucks and people who knew someone and wanted to learn to deal.
I worked as I said for about 5-6 years with this guy ands also worked the after hours clubs which is where I made good money. As far as the scams went, the guy with the shot and another incident with something else is all that I remember happening, aside from the usual shot takers and bs artists. I did have a lot of fun though, that I cant deny, some of the stuff that went on was just hilarious, guys nodding off on the base, arguments with players, etc.. I should have wrote it all down, would have made a great comedy.
mrcraps
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I was doing some research about the subject of dice control and have an interest in learning but not sure if it is even possible to control the outcome of the dice. I then came across the golden touch craps website and after searching some more I found this forum post! so as you can imagine I had to register in order to get in on the topic Smile

I found also another link on google that was an interesting read. http://www.crapspit.org/golden-touch-craps-review/ I used to think craps dice control to win at the casinos MAY be possible but then I read the article and well I was not so sure anymore. What they talk about actually make sense so I decided to hold of on spending money on GTC for the time being.

Perhaps some casinos have some old craps table that don't affect the dice throw like perhaps newer craps tables as mentioned in the article above? I mean that is not something a good dicethrower can beat.... or?
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