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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Polly wants a cracker... » » Young dove workers ! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

dahih beik
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palestine
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I have been working on my dove act for years and it is not ready yet , thorough out my study I watched as much acts as I can and guess what , I hate most young magicians dove worker , no hard feelings but these young magicians just make dove acts look ridiculous . why what are the mistakes ill tel you
1- the posture - they don't know were and how to stand they just keep moving thus distracting the audience from the effect and I believe the reason is they are not confident in the production they are about to make so they try to misdirect attention or hide the move by silly movements .
2 - structuring . just watch lance,greg f, tony clark, andy amyx.for example . each effect is separate and clear and can stand alone no confusion of what is happening .i believe that each production must be clear ,an effect of its own no confusion with other effects , but yes it can lead to the next like the dove split but not confused with other effects .
3- the silly look in there eyes after the production . if you don't have lance Burton eyes and tony clarks smile or richard ross chukle then look into mirror and study your face structure to see what best expresion fits your face before becoming a clowne with no intention ,study dyriel fitzgy trilogy they have all that info you need to be oreginal and study yourself .. that's for now guys exccuse my speling mistakes but not my magic mistakes . thanks .
aboycemagic
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I am a young magician who does a dove act,
I am no Lance and I am not any of the other guys you compare me/us to. I am myself. In the act I am working on right I wear a casual tux because that's my personality. I also have a young dove magician who is a friendof mine who wears jeans, a button down, and a suit jacket because that's his personality. I strongly disagree with you stereotyping all young magicians who work with doves. And comparing us to Lance, Greg Frewin, Andy Amyx, and Tony Clark who have worked on their acts for a much longer time because they are older. I have seen a couple younger dove magicians who could improve their posture, structuring, and the "silly look in their eyes" and maybe I could too, but so could a lot of adults.
Alex
dahih beik
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palestine
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There are some very very good young magicians , and I did not stereotype anybody I said most not all I just hate seeing incomplete premature acts ..and I did not say that you should be a lance Burton but I said that each effect should be clear and registered as he does even a simple and automatic tricks like dove tray could be a strong effect if you do not shy away from it and give it your best believe me I did not mean to sound aggressive I am so critical about my art I see a lot of horrible acts on youtube much more than the good ones .. good luck with your magic and take care .
dahih beik
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palestine
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Just for the record lim jae-hoon is a young magician that rocks just take a look at his act on youtube .
Dave Scribner
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I think the same could be said for most any act and not necessarily about young magicians. I've seen a lot of coin acts and none are a Roth or a Rubenstein but they are pretty good at what they do. Each magician has to be himself or the act just won't play right.

As far as each effect being a stand alone, I disagree to a point. In any act, each effect should link to the next. Too many magicians get up and perform one trick after another and that's exactly what it looks like. A good act takes one effect and merges it into the next. In short, there should be a reason for each movement. For instance, if a prop is on one side of the stage and you are doing an effect on the other side, there should be a reason for you to cross stage to the next effect.

A good example, at least in my opinion is my own act. I start with a ribbons to dove production, vanish the dove turning it into a silk, using the silk as part of a 20th century silk routine and ending with the reappearance of the dove. That dove "lays" and egg which turns to a ball for the billiard ball routine. It goes on but I think that gives you an idea of what is called routining.
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dahih beik
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palestine
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Thanks dave for responding I always respect your opinion but this time I wish you had read my post through because I mentioned that a trick could lead to another like the dove split and mentioning the greats as lance and tony clarck was to draw attention to the way they stand and move and make clear each move I personally don't think that lance has a strong connection between one trick and another but ending each sequence with the production of a dove , and my point wich I think is important and I hope that you agree with me is that each production should be clear cut because the production is the icing of the cake in a dove act for example
1- silks production to blendo to dove
2-flash to dove to dove split
3- candle production to vanish to dove and so on
I do not believe you have to link all the act together but some parts the most important thing is coherence and clarity of effect think of this for example wich is better to be moving when the dove start to come out and flatter its wings or to stand still and let the movement of the dove production be the spot light . producing a dove is like creating life on stage it has to get its attention . thanks .
dahih beik
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palestine
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I know you must say that this guy talks too much but ill post my act soon so to show you what I mean and get feed back from you and others .thanks
Dave Scribner
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I agree, and I did read your post. Without a doubt, an effect should be finished before moving on. In your example, the dove should make it's entire appearance before the magician moves on. Otherwise, in my opinion, it looks like the magician is trying to hide something.

I also agree that the entire act does not have to link from one effect to another. In my act, I have 3 separate sections if you will. Each section is comprised of about 5 effects and they link together in a progression. When the time comes to move to the next section, there is a reason for the transition but those effects don't relate to the first section. Hope that isn't too confusing.
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aboycemagic
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Thanks for clearing it up Dahih Beik.
dahih beik
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palestine
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No this is not confusing in fact I believe from my experience that a good magic act with doves is the most difficult to achieve because you are dealing with livestock even withmany performances and training thry can be still unpredictable and complicated to work with putting in account that for me birds safty comes first . thanks
dahih beik
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palestine
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhMsQObFVdQ
just take a look at this fantastic act
MagicB1S
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That Act COULD be fantastic, I think the flow was nice, the effects were very well placed in the routine and the routine itself was very well thought out. However it was very sloppy. There were several flashes. and it could have been a little more rehearsed. Just my two cents
Bob
"There are Tricks To All Trades.... My Trade is all Tricks"

"An amature practices until he gets it right. A Professional Practices until he can't get it wrong"

www.Themagicchest.webs.com
bobswislosky@yahoo.com
dahih beik
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You might be right but at least the effects are innovative and the guy is confident I am sure he'll get better. There are some very beautiful moments. I like the frame idea also never seen it done this way before .. one more thing what is the story with these japanese audience their reacting is so powerful do they appreciate magic more than anybody else or what ...
asafmagik
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This young man is confident, But very hard on the birds for my comfort, some of the pulls are rough and he seems to YO-YO the bird, or jerk him around a bit. seems like sometimes he has a hard time getting the bird to perch on hand after produced. But I do agree his ideas are clever and I do appreciate that portion of his act, but I would hate to be one of his birds. It is rough when you see a bird produced, then they are flopping around, or you see feathers fluttering to the ground after the production. Something for all of the dove workers to look out for.
allan31
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Hi !
I hate watching so many bird acts where birds are just props for the magician...
The video of this magician is a perfect example of that and you can watch many many acts of this kind in these series of tv shows...Really a shame !
I would like to tell all these magicians to stay doing cards manipulation but to avoid using birds just to win a price in a tv show!

I don't understand why they use so many invisible harnesses and for sure,not adapted to their birds...Really a shame to watch birds hanging aroud the wire! I guess these guys don't take care of their birds and you can see the doves are not used to do the act!

the problem of the feathers fluttering to the ground is natural during some weeks in the year...but, that's right, it could be considered, from a spectator point of view, as a hard manipulation of the bird!We loose our hairs and doves loose their feathers!

On these tv shows, you can watch many bird acts with a lot of creative things...but do we have to choose between creativity and bad care of the birds?
I really prefer a classic bird act where the birds are beautifull and where you can see the frienship between the magician and all his birds (doves, parrots, canaries...)
dahih beik
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palestine
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I totally agree birds safety and comfort comes first .
aboycemagic
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If you agree that birds safety comes first why do you use that video as an example of a "fantastic act". Check out 2:15 and 4:10. Alex
dahih beik
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palestine
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Nobody can deny the innovative thinking behind some of the productions , but to be honest asaf draw my attention to the fact that the guy is jerking the birds too hard , don t accuse me of promoting cruel bird acts before reading what I said in previous posting about this issue . before you post a smart rhetorical question that will make you appear a clever bird friendly you could have pm me to check out first .
aboycemagic
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Dahih beik,
In the previous post you said you agree that birds saety comes first. Ok. I still don't understand why you used it as an example of a great act if in your mind birds safety comes first. You seem to be changing sides from seeing it as a great act, then birds safety comes first, and you think it is in your words, a fantastic act and lim jae-hoon is a young magician that rocks.
Alex
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