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tomterm8 Regular user 163 Posts |
I’ve been putting together a short routine from Royal Road to Card Magic. While I don’t think I’ll ever be an expert at card magic (my interests lay elsewhere), I’ve decided I want to be proficient enough that when someone hands me a deck of cards I can entertain them.
A lot of the tricks I’ve chosen don’t seem to me like they would fool magicians. Their methods are quite simple, but the reason I selected them was because I think they are fun tricks, which have a lot of potential. Do you think it’s important to select tricks that can fool magicians? |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
No. Entertainment is more important than "fooling" anyway.
Look at Penn & Teller's cups and balls for proof of this.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
No.
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Stonewick New user 81 Posts |
Not at all. Non-magicians are blown away by a decent impromptu performance with a borrowed deck. Have Fun!
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
You'd actually be surprised how often magicians are fooled by simple stuff, when they get caught up in the presentation. Of course many of them can de-construct later, but at the moment...
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
There isn't any real money or fun in working for magicians. Magicians who work to impress other magicians are like card cheats who look for fast company--the most knowledgeable and observant players to cheat. It is silliness.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
For contests at conventions and such I would love to see at least half the judges be lay people.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-09-02 10:18, tomterm8 wrote: "Magicians" is a very broad term. However, in answer to your question, my vote is no.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
You've got to cater to your audience. If your audience is magicians, then yes, it's important. If your audience is regular people, then no, it's not important.
Personally, I want everything I do to fool everybody, magicians and regular people alike. I won't, however, sacrifice fooling regular people just to surprise a magician with a move they haven't seen before.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Fooling a magician is like taking candy from a baby.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
On the other hand I can tell you that it would astound you what fools other magicians. Almost any good solid routine will fool anyone, magician or other if they don't already know how it's done.
But, really as noted above, although your magic 'should' fool folks selecting material just 'because' it 'might' fool magicians is a waste of mostly emotional time. Best,
Brad Burt
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Bill Hallahan Inner circle New Hampshire 3222 Posts |
I don't like the word "fool" much for the concept being used here, but it's the shortest description I know that means, "effectively deceive spectators using a secret method to produce a false impression in their minds.
I don't always learn everything I read, so I have been fooled by a routine that I had read in a magic book previously. I also don't always remember everything I've learned. So, rarely I've even been fooled by something I had learned years before, particularly when it was shown in a different context. Despite those experiences where I was fooled by secret methods that I should have been aware of, most of the time I am not fooled in such situations. So, to fool me with certain effects, you'll generally have to change to different method than the one I already know. This might be a bad idea if you were also performing for non-magicians at the same time that you performed for me. If there is a best method for non-magicians for the trick, and sometimes there is, then you'd be changing to a generally worse method just to fool me. So finding methods that are effective for magicians might make the trick worse for non-magicians. A corollary to the idea promoted here is: if there is a trick that fools non-magicians that you already know, then don't be overly impressed with a similar trick just because it fools you. I'm often amused when a magic advertisement states, "No <method 1 gimmick>, and no <method 2> gaff, and no <list of methods>... ." If the usual gimmick or gaff is ineffective, or difficult to use, or expensive to replace, then that type of advertisement makes sense, but much of the time the advertiser is capitalizing on some people's tendency to think, "This new 'similar trick' doesn't use the method that I already know, so it seems more magical to [i]me than the routine that I know fools non-magicians.[/i]"
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch" |
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Jacques Loyal user North 206 Posts |
Let's face it. It is important for many magicians to fool, or deceive, other magicians because they want to sell a new trick, gimmick, book, DVD, or their reputation...
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Gee guys, if it weren't for new gismos, gimmicks and methods magicians would have to rely on presentation and character development and elocution and routining. Sounds like a lot of work and practice to me. I'm waiting for the day when you say, "Wanna see a magic trick," and when they foolishly say, "Yup," you hand them a box that when opened performs the trick all by itself while you have a beer.
When performing for magicians you just leave the instructions inside.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-09-02 19:58, funsway wrote: The Beer's foam hides the gaff. Unfair and lazy.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
When I see an effect, and I don't know "how it's done," I don't think in terms of "it fooled me" -- just in terms of, "okay, so I'm clueless." However, that's when I get into "do I care or not." A lot of material I've seen just doesn't grab me at all, so it doesn't mean anything to me whether it "fooled me" or not.
The only motivation I would have for "knowing" how something works would be if I wanted to perform it myself. Otherwise I don't worry about it.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Hey that was clever.
I never saw that before. Maybe you should get that published. Love fooling magicians. ;)
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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writeall Special user Midland, Michigan 930 Posts |
When I look at tricks I'm looking for things that amaze me, and yes, fool me. Not other magicians, but that inner kid in me that really likes the delight and wonder only good magic can bring. That's the opinion I listen to when I'm evaluating an effect.
When I'm trying to figure out how a trick might be accomplished, I've got my magician hat on and it's a whole different thing. When I'm lost in a good performance, all that goes away and I'm as entertained and as befuddled as anyone else. |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-09-02 10:18, tomterm8 wrote: I'll go with the classic answer. The only ones that really count are your spectators. Magicians are a dime a dozen . Just ask me, I happen to be one. All joking aside, we really need to do stuff that will fool and ENTERTAIN the layman. If it happens to fool magicians too, then that's just extra icing on the magic cake.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Anyone who has ever competed at their local magic club know all too well that magicians never laugh, or are they ever impressed. They are the worst audience in the world (except for three year olds).
I got tired of doing C&R, because it was far too simple for me to bother with, until I saw a real pro (Jimmy Ray) do C&R for about 15 minutes with the audience rolling in the isles. Ever since that day C&R has been my closing trick. I will never fool a magician with C&R, but it kills when done right.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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