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TrickyRicky Inner circle TrickyRicky 1653 Posts |
Hey guys.
Listen to Al.He knows the secret. Magicians are dime a dozen now-a-days. Entertainers are far and few in between Hardly any customer ever called to for me do some magic for the children, they always say "I would like to book you to entertain the children with your magic at the party" The laugh a minute show always get booked. TrickyRicky |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
There is no single gauge I know that says one is a good or bad magician. There are so many styles and methods of performance. Bad magicians get booked just as much as good ones. In some cases what we think is bad, is good to the person who is paying the bill.
I see the point as LPM as a gauge. For instance the Vanishing Bandana, does not get 4 LPM but the routine is good and solid. There are funny moments and then there is the story line, "How to do the trick" Using Frank's list lets review them in more detail (My revised Version) x- Magicians that perform the tricks they love I have loved miser's dream since I first saw it in the 60s. I have created many lines, studied how others have done it, even views Ali Bongos method (I'm not Ali Bongo). I have tried variations and have posted these here on the Café. It's a clossic as well as 20th century silks. I have variations of these too. I also love the pro viper II and these three I cannot see me taking them out of my show. I like them a lot and I have built on them. x- Magicians work on the same tricks for years to make each one spectacular It hard to remove or replace these routines. I have an egg bag routine I want to replace and just when I want too, someone say he really likes that trick. After working on them it is difficult to change them. Adding music and a Backdrop was one of the best improvements I made. x- Magicians always see room for improvement in everything they do What I need is more transition and music within my hold show to increase the "spectacular" in it. I keep reminding myself the importance of the "assistance interview" when I have a child assistant on the stage. This could be funny in itself without embarrasment. x- Magicians have a notebook and have notes in it (Also, a private blog or forum for these notes) I keep a personal forum, with thousands of notes, I keep an online database with over 12,000 oneliners, to review when I want to look for something funny. I keep index cards with me so when something happens during the show I can write it down. I have an iPod with an App that allows me to make lists and keep notes when on the road. Yes, I use other lines if I hear them or at least add them to the database. x- Magicians works on their lines, increasing the LPM I know the more laughter the better the kids like the show. Si I have created a list and have posted it on the Café of things that can increase the "funny" in a routine. I use "props" (Visual Comedy) that are funny, I use jesters, facial reactions, and actions that are funny (Physical Comedy), I say things that are funny, jokes, puns, oneliners, etc. (Verbal Comedy), and I use sound tracks or music (Audio Comedy) See (Adding Comedy to understand what I mean by LPM) x- Magicians writes their own scripts, but can use well designed scripts as a starting point. I was lucky to have a mentor in my youth who took my script which I now consider as a "descriptive script" ('I have a blue silk')('I have a red (which is really blue) handkerchief') and revise it adding in oneliners , mini stories, and puns, etc. He taught me how to write scripts. I have several scrip notebooks, each showing my progression over the years. One can start with a storyline, descriptive script, or even the basic routine the trick came with and revise it to be your own. x- Magicians does original stuff, introducing them slowly into an established act In this area I am the weakest because I know the classics are tried and true. They work so well it is tough to change them. Original to me is using common magic items and creating my routine from it. Or have a starting place and adding to it using the 4 forms of comedy mentioned above. I don't have the skills to build a new item and paint it so it looks really good (Wolf Magic). It is easier for me to take one of the many thousands of items out there and build on that. x- Magicians uses other skills besides magic in their act, like puppets, juggling, balloons, theater skills, story telling, etc. I tried adding balloons, but for me, this takes away from the magic. It works well for many others. I have puppets, lots of them but I am nervous to introduce them into my show. I use a real rabbit, but do have fun with stinky the spring skunk. I try to keep in mind my theater training, facing the audience, keeping eye contact, talking to everyone, using comments that come from the audience, adding an emotional element to the show. Using an Audio enhanced routine, using a storytelling routine, using a danger routine, all to make the show more than just a bunch of magical props. As you can see, I agree with Frank choices of things that make a magician better. Sometimes when the information is "writen" in longer form it makes more sense. By no means is this the only method of presenting the magic. I've learned from my Brit friends, Kimmo, Jimbo and Dave Andrews, as well as many of my USA friends. KIDabra has given me a lot in understanding as well as new and creative ideas. I hope this long post makes sense to you so you and be that "Better" magician. -Dennis
Dennis Michael
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magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
I think you would be hard pushed to have a successful children's show that didn't make people laugh.
I see myself as a comedy magician and think it is important for both the comedy and the magic to be strong. I'm not a big fan of using laughs per minute as a gauge and don't think there is some kind of magic number for the perfect comedy show (especially not to 2 decimal places !). It's a bit like saying your a good magician because you do so many sleights per second. LPM is far too formulaic and doesn't consider all the hundreds of other factors that go into a comedy performance. Entertaining is an art not a science there are no formulas to make you a good magician or a funny performer. You get good through hard work and perseverence and you'll learn more through performing than you'll ever learn from any book or dvd out there. A database of 12,000 one-liners makes me sad (unless you wrote them all yourself...) George |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
George,
It isn't all kids magic lines. In developing a vent script, Steve Axtell taught me how to link and transition comedy lines and jokes. It also is a good reference for a variety of acts such as an MC. It is not easy coming up with jokes that are funny. There are still some good ones out there.
Dennis Michael
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I feel that original jokes are just as important as original magic routines. Magicians that rely on traditional magic PATTER really stink out loud.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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jackturk Elite user 463 Posts |
I 1000% totally agree that a kids show should have lots
of laughter. My guarantee in fact when describing my show to a prospect is "and every package of course includes a room full of screaming, laughing, howling, happy children." That's the end point from which I reverse engineer everything in the act - jokes, routines, transition lines, visual comedy, etc. And you HAVE to entertain the parents too. You can do this by enhancing old jokes with location-based quips that fit with the local region. For instance, here in Seattle I do a bit with balloon dogs that goes: "Guess what kind of dog this is... it wins awards at the Westminster dog show, great with kids, good with other pets... ... it's an Airedale! Get it... Airedale... I used to make Husky Dogs, but they always ran out of air after three quarters...." (A reference to the sad state of UW's football team.) A joke isn't always a predictable 1-2-3 punchline. There are many different formulas for jokes. A quick aside that refers to a bit of shared pain in the region can often result in a laugh. I also do a gag that goes like this: "Here's an experiment that I actually did at a Microsoft morale event... back when they had morale.... events...." Given the angst over layoffs, etc. at the evil empire these days, that can bring a huge laugh. The old formula I heard from a joke-writer for gags: Truth + Pain = Laughter Something to consider when crafting your routines. -Jack
"59 Ways To Recession Proof Your Entertainment Business -- FREE!"
http://www.GetLeadsLikeCrazy.com "How To Make $25,000 a Year Doing Birthday Parties Part-Time" http://www.magicmarketingcenter.com/birthdayPT |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
Never heard that one...
Truth + Pain = Laughter It makes sense, I like it.
Dennis Michael
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magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
I have several notebooks and computer files full of my own jokes which I use and get laughs from. I would say that leads to a better understanding of how jokes are created than compiling a collection of other peoples jokes.
It doesn't matter how many jokes books you read or how many "Professors of Comedy" share their astonishing concepts (such as owning a notepad) with you you'll not be able to hone you're writing or act to any degree if you don't man up and write your own jokes then perform them. George |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I have a computer file where I keep the jokes that I have written for me, there's probibly only 100 or so jokes in that file, but every one of them I use.
truth + pain = laughs I agree with that formula to a degree. The pain could come from contradiction (puns), cynicism (insults), or irony. I dislike both contradiction, and cynical humor.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
It's nice to see you keep a joke book. We each keep notes in our own methods to use in our own way. That's cool.
The point is one learns how to create in our own way based on our educational experiences on our own topic, based on our own beliefs which make us each unique.
Dennis Michael
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
When I say there needs to be magic in a magic show, my point is this:
We often hear things like, "The magic is not important." --"As long as they laugh, that's all that matters." I think statements like that is misleading and can lead some to believe that you can actually do a magic show without any magic at all. I say, you can't. Every day I see kids running, screaming, laughing, having fun, and there is no magic to be seen. That's what Kids do when they get together and the teacher/parent allow it. It doesn't take much for kids to find happiness. I've seen kids screaming from watching a bug crawl around on the floor. They were loving it. But I seriously don't think a paying parent would want me to leave the magic at home and just bring a bug. I believe someone hiring a magician is expecting to see some magic. Sure, it doesn't have to be Copperfield amazing, but still, it needs to be magic. I would be disappointed if I hired Al to do a juggling/magic show and he only sang songs. I would be disappointed if I hired Dennis to do magic and he only told jokes. I would be disappointed if I hired Jack to do a magic show and he showed up with the complete show in his shirt pocket. My point is this. Everything a magician does is based on the magic. That is the backbone of the show. That is why people hire magicians. It is important. What is a good magician? Someone who can entertain using magic. What is a bad magician? Someone who doesn't entertain using magic. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Tom
I must admit that your opinion of a bad magician is the same as mine. Once I saw an elderly magician who's name I won't mention. He started his show with a very long bit of business using a purple wig, some music, and three audience volunteers that must have lasted 20 minutes, he literally had me unable to take my eyes off of him for fear that I would miss his first trick. He was easily the worst magician that I have ever seen, and I remember his show like it was yesterday, it was like a train wreck. This was about 10 years ago, and he was around 75 then, so I don't think that he is still performing.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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jackturk Elite user 463 Posts |
Tom, when I show up I definitely do magic.
I love magic and have since I was five years old. I toiled for hours, weeks, months and years over material from Tarbell, Hugard, Fitzkee, and others. And it's still a huge kick when I arrive for a gig and the kids all point and smile with excitement: "The MAGICIAN is here." Holy crap, is that not a huge part of why we even bother? But I abandoned the competitive aspect of magic a long, long time ago. IMO a magic show is not a competition between the fooler and the fooled. If that's all you can offer, that's a very poor excuse for entertainment. It's theater in the best sense of the word, blending mystery, laughter, interaction, suspense, participation, and fun. What I love about this biz is the fact I get to be writer, director, stage manager, choreographer, audio tech, web designer, salesman, marketing director, and actor -- all rolled into one. Name another art form where you can do all that. That's pretty darned magical if you ask me. --j
"59 Ways To Recession Proof Your Entertainment Business -- FREE!"
http://www.GetLeadsLikeCrazy.com "How To Make $25,000 a Year Doing Birthday Parties Part-Time" http://www.magicmarketingcenter.com/birthdayPT |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
I know you do Jack.
Honestly, I just wanted to make a strong point that magic is still what magicians do. (Mainly for the younger readers.) You would think it was a given, but we do sometimes talk as if we could just completely leave the magic out. But I do agree, the magic doesn't have to be eye popping to please. And you right, it's not about fooling the audience. It's that mixture that makes the magic. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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keeblem Inner circle Essex, UK 1167 Posts |
I think some people have "it" and some people don't.
I agree with George that some people can learn "it" with: Quote:
On 2010-09-05 09:28, magicgeorge wrote: However, I believe some people never aquire "it" no matter how many shows they do and no matter how many books you've read or DVDs you've watched. As has been said before, I believe to be a great children's entertainer the starting point is to love and respect children. On the LPM debate, I think one of the best tricks out there is Axtell's drawing board. When you think about it, it doesn't really get any laughs (there goes your LPM) but more screams of disbelief. It's always the trick that everyone (children and adults) talk about. Mark |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
Maybe I should have said IPM (Interactions Per Minute), because what Mark said about the drawing board is true. I've also seen several routines where they sing together. It's quite moving and the laughter is not there, but the amazement is.
Dennis Michael
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magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
IPM/LPM? What's wrong with good old performer's instinct? Self-evaluation is essential for any performer and is difficult (like writing your own jokes as you correctly pointed out). Why reduce it to some contrived over-simplified formula?
Quote:
On 2010-09-05 23:39, TomBoleware wrote: I have done my show without the magic. (Some holy-roller that couldn't be argued with). I do agree that if you're selling your services as a magician you should do some strong magic. I strive toward being a good entertainer and a skilled magician. If you can't take the magic out and still entertain then you are only entertaining because of your props and we go back to the 'it's you not the props' argument that we've been having once a month for the last century. So yes, I agree; do great magic but also be a great performer and don't rely on your props as a crutch. |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
Quote:
IPM/LPM? What's wrong with good old performer's instinct? Self-evaluation is essential for any performer and is difficult (like writing your own jokes as you correctly pointed out). Why reduce it to some contrived over-simplified formula? Self evaluation has it's faults. Too many bad magicians, think they are good. That is self evaluation. In addition where is the criteria of expected behaviors for what should be considered a good magician? There are no specific criteria to evaluate one-self, except for those which I created to remind me what is good in one's performance. Instead of writing LPM/IPM, Self evaluations, help the readers by stating what you think a good magician should be doing. Frank contributed information and I expanded on it. One needs not to accept it, only to adjust it to fit their own.
Dennis Michael
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Dennis, you used the word amazement above. I like that, and that's why
I keep saying the magic can't be taken out or overshadowed. There has to be amazement. Maybe we should add to Frank's list (which is great by the way) and describe a good magician as: "One who amazes with magic and laughter" Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
If a performer can't self-evaluate (unless they've chockful of natural talent) they won't get any better and a made up reference guides such as LPM will not do anything for them. My point is you learn from creating and performing not from making up lists and trying to find formulas. That's my advice in a nutshell it seems a lot less than you're offering but I think it's more important.
If you want to treat this craft as an art then you have to work hard and rely on your instinct. If Van Gogh was alive today do you think he'd be on a forum asking the best way to paint sunflowers? There aren't a list of rules that turn you into a good entertainer. |
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