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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » One of the best ways to keep peace is to be prepared for war. - General George Washington (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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kcg5
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Lets just quote people back and forth and try to out-fancy ourselves!!

But really (and I hate saying this phrase) "in todays world" I think it is true.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
MagicSanta
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"Lets just quote people back and forth and try to out-fancy ourselves!!"
kcg5
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I agree. War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Knowledge.
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Quote:
On 2010-09-06 20:55, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-09-06 20:39, Josh the Superfluous wrote:
How do you interpret that one, Lobo? It doesn't make sense to me....


I believe that Crane's first guy had the commonplace that something horrible would happen to him, whereas the second (wiser) guy was afraid with the (less common, but wiser) concern that one might himself victimize someone in the course of his day.

Was the second guy carrying a gun by any chance? Or did he only gain his knowledge after he fired?
Dreadnought
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As to the original post. Nope, it's all pretty Machiavellian.

War comes about due to a loss of hope. Hope is lost because there is no faith. If there is no faith in peace then there is no hope for peace.

Peace and Godspeed.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
gaddy
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They don't make weapons NOT to be used.

If you humans are going to murder each other, at least have the good taste to not bring some god's name or another in to it. Do it for money...
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
LobowolfXXX
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Either be prepared for war, or be friends with people who are prepared for war.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
kcg5
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Quote:
On 2010-09-06 22:39, MagicSanta wrote:
"Lets just quote people back and forth and try to out-fancy ourselves!!"
kcg5
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
Pakar Ilusi
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I must have hit a nerve...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
LobowolfXXX
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There's always the "Be nice to Hitler, and he'll be nice to you" philosophy.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Josh Chaikin
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I'm inclined to agree with the initial quote that Pakar posted. However, few things are so cut-and-dried. Yes, as Magnus pointed out it's one small part of keeping the peace, but it is a crucial part. A helicopter has 30,000 pieces to it - 300 are critical. Any one of those fail and the chopper goes down. I suppose, however, if we didn't have a military resistance there would be no war - there wouldn't be peace either.

A lesson from the Cold War may be in order. We had ICBMs and so did the Russians, it was a race to see who could stockpile more. The idea was if one country fired theirs, the other would certainly retaliate causing the end of the world. If we didn't stockpile any, would we have been attacked? Maybe, maybe not. BUT preparing FOR that eventuality prevented it and kept a semblance of peace.
gaddy
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Quote:
On 2010-09-07 12:23, Josh Chaikin wrote:
A lesson from the Cold War may be in order. We had ICBMs and so did the Russians, it was a race to see who could stockpile more. The idea was if one country fired theirs, the other would certainly retaliate causing the end of the world. If we didn't stockpile any, would we have been attacked? Maybe, maybe not. BUT preparing FOR that eventuality prevented it and kept a semblance of peace.


Nuclear weapons have been around for approximately 70 years. Not even one, long, human lifetime. It seems pretty short sighted to me to use such a tiny, fleeting measure of time as a basis of comparison.

Those things WILL be used at some point in the future, perhaps sooner than one might think.

http://www.takepart.com/countdowntozero
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
Josh Chaikin
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True enough...the United States won the Revolutionary War, but in 1812 the country was back at war with England - showing that even going to war won't guarantee peace. I have no doubt that if the terrorists got their hands on a nuclear device they would have no compulsions about using it, threat of doomsday be ***ed (but the war on terror is vastly different than any other conflict the country has been engaged in).

Another example may work to help my case...in high school, someone thought he could push me around and bully me, until I broke his nose by smashing his face into a locker. I was prepared to fight him and he didn't expect that. As a result, those four years went by without incident.

It works on a small-scale, for sure...does it work on a larger scale, preventing war? Maybe...maybe not, the example I cited shows it stopped war with the Soviet Union. Was it an end-all? No, but, unless I'm mistaken, Washington wasn't referring to that when he said what he did.

As long as there is some line of defense in place, there will be some
RS1963
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Gaddy with the cold war now over the use of nuclear weapons by those that have them is even more of a likely hood as you point out. Yes during the cold war both Russia and the U.S. seemed much more than poised to start a nuclear attack a couple of times. Look at the invasion of Cuba that happened 48 years ago. That may have almost did it right there.

But the U.S. and Russia should up the production of such weapons since there are so many out there now that have them or will very soon.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-09-07 13:13, Josh Chaikin wrote:
True enough...the United States won the Revolutionary War, but in 1812 the country was back at war with England - showing that even going to war won't guarantee peace. I have no doubt that if the terrorists got their hands on a nuclear device they would have no compulsions about using it, threat of doomsday be ***ed (but the war on terror is vastly different than any other conflict the country has been engaged in). . . .


The war on drugs, war on abortion, war on (teen)sex. Ok, really only the "war on drugs" was ever really "officially declared" if you will.

Point is, not really all that different. All these "wars" have produced more people engaging in the activities they were trying to stop.

Can you really have a war against a concept anyways?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Josh Chaikin
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That's my point. Gaddy seemed to imply that George Washington committed a fallacy. I interpreted his reply to mean that peace is only peace if it is long-lasting, if I misunderstood please correct me...which may be true to an extent. My point is/was, that in the Cold War we had a definable enemy in the Soviets. Their armies were identifiable. It was a nation. The arms race tactic did work, or expedite things...Reagan was certainly some sort of catalyst there. Preparing for war with Russia prevented war with Russia.

Will that work with the terrorists? No. I kno that, I'm not an idiot. Gaddy mentioned that the Nuclear arms where there 70 years ago ( WW II), continue to exist today along with their threat. I was conceding the point that yes, the threat does exist with a different enemy that won't be deterred by the threat of a Nuclear holocaust. He drew the dots and that's the way I connected them

If that single line was all you took from my post, then I either need to really start making things more concise or you missed my point completely.
muse
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Quote:
On 2010-09-07 14:36, gdw wrote:

Can you really have a war against a concept anyways?


We need a war against war against concepts
muse
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And on the original post, does the Swiss model suggest that it might be correct? This is if we define "preparing for war" as being a very different thing to "preparing to wage war".
gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-09-07 15:15, muse wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-09-07 14:36, gdw wrote:

Can you really have a war against a concept anyways?


We need a war against war against concepts


LOL, brilliant.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
tommy
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There's no peace for the wicked.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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