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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts 
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Do you agree?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Yes.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts
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"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - Winston Churchill
Agreed.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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And besides, nukes make fine furniture when you add the glass tops or cushions - and also great ways to teach the kids to program computers. It's the new art-deco. Look for the glowing triangle logo at finer housewares suppliers. I hear Jhane Barnes is even doing special runs of inspired fabric designs for this new "arm your home for nuclear peace" initiative.
ahem 
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts
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Yes.
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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Yes.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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"There are instruments so dangerous to the rights of the nation and which place them so totally at the mercy of their governors that those governors, whether legislative or executive, should be restrained from keeping such instruments on foot but in well-defined cases. Such an instrument is a standing army." --Thomas Jefferson to David Humphreys, 1789. ME 7:323
"I do not like [in the new Federal Constitution] the omission of a Bill of Rights providing clearly and without the aid of sophisms for... protection against standing armies." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. ME 6:387 "Nor is it conceived needful or safe that a standing army should be kept up in time of peace for [defense against invasion]." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Annual Message, 1801. ME 3:334 "Standing armies [are] inconsistent with [a people's] freedom and subversive of their quiet." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Lord North's Proposition, 1775. Papers 1:231 "The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force." --Thomas Jefferson to Chandler Price, 1807. ME 11:160 "A distinction between the civil and military [is one] which it would be for the good of the whole to obliterate as soon as possible." --Thomas Jefferson: Answers to de Meusnier Questions, 1786. ME 17:90 "It is nonsense to talk of regulars. They are not to be had among a people so easy and happy at home as ours. We might as well rely on calling down an army of angels from heaven." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1814. ME 14:207 "There shall be no standing army but in time of actual war." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution, 1776. Papers 1:363 "The Greeks and Romans had no standing armies, yet they defended themselves. The Greeks by their laws, and the Romans by the spirit of their people, took care to put into the hands of their rulers no such engine of oppression as a standing army. Their system was to make every man a soldier and oblige him to repair to the standard of his country whenever that was reared. This made them invincible; and the same remedy will make us so." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814. ME 14:184 "Bonaparte... transferred the destinies of the republic from the civil to the military arm. Some will use this as a lesson against the practicability of republican government. I read it as a lesson against the danger of standing armies." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Adams, 1800. ME 10:154
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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"One of the best ways to keep peace is to be prepared for war."
The statement is vague enough that it would be hard for me to disagree that it is probably true at least some of the time, in some situations. But I have to observe that a nation undergoing militarization, or getting to be prepared for war, must be one of the best ways to induce other nations to attack it. Lots of examples of this throughout history.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-09-06 18:08, Pakar Ilusi wrote: Love those rough men in the night. So manly with their big guns. Surely the Prince of Peace smiles at the thought of them.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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Continuing my earlier message, as my attempted edit was too slow to take, ...
I think the truer statement is "One of the best ways to keep another nation from attacking is to be prepared for war". Another is "Being prepared for war means that you are more likely to declare one yourself".
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts
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My mom ran into my attorney, and told him how well things were going after my divorce. He told her that I should be taking notes. His experience confirms the saying.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-09-06 19:46, balducci wrote: "A man feared that he might find an assassin; Another that he might find a victim. One was more wise than the other." -Stephen Crane
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts
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How do you interpret that one, Lobo? It doesn't make sense to me....
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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Poor GDW, pulling suitable quotes from Jefferson while ignoring what the fellow was saying. He believed EVERY male (even you lil' guy if you were alive then) should be trained as a defensive militia and be obligated to have weapons in order to fight should the country be invaded. He, of course, was not stupid enough to think this was enough and he realized a standing army was needed for foriegn expeditions and he was very much in favor of a strong and well equiped navy. You imply that Jefferson was a pacifist and anti military, uh uh. He did not approve of a military over the civil govt which a republic such as the US has never had. Jefferson would have shot a knife welding whittler had he approached him.
"For a people who are free and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security. It is, therefore, incumbent on us at every meeting [of Congress] to revise the condition of the militia and to ask ourselves if it is prepared to repel a powerful enemy at every point of our territories exposed to invasion... Congress alone have power to produce a uniform state of preparation in this great organ of defense. The interests which they so deeply feel in their own and their country's security will present this as among the most important objects of their deliberation." --Thomas Jefferson: 8th Annual Message, 1808. ME 3:482 "None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army. To keep ours armed and disciplined is therefore at all times important, but especially so at a moment when rights the most essential to our welfare have been violated." --Thomas Jefferson to -----, 1803. ME 10:365 "A well-disciplined militia, our best reliance in peace and for the first moments of war till regulars may relieve them, I deem [one of] the essential principles of our Government, and consequently [one of] those which ought to shape its administration." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801. "Militia do well for hasty enterprises but cannot be relied on for lengthy service and out of their own country." --Thomas Jefferson to North Carolina Assembly, 1781. FE 2:480, Papers 5:54 "We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can never be safe till this is done." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1813. ME 13:261 "I think the truth must now be obvious that our people are too happy at home to enter into regular service, and that we cannot be defended but by making every citizen a soldier, as the Greeks and Romans who had no standing armies; and that in doing this all must be marshaled, classed by their ages, and every service ascribed to its competent class." --Thomas Jefferson to John Wayles Eppes, 1814. "Against great land armies we cannot attempt defense but by equal armies. For these we must depend on a classified militia, which will give us the service of the class from twenty to twenty-six, in the nature of conscripts,... to be specially trained. This measure, attempted at a former session, was pressed at the last, and might, I think, have been carried by a small majority. But considering that great innovations should not be forced on a slender majority, and seeing that the general opinion is sensibly rallying to it, it was thought better to let it lie over to the next session, when, I trust, it will be passed." --Thomas Jefferson to John Armstrong, 1808. "Convinced that a militia of all ages promiscuously are entirely useless for distant service, and that we never shall be safe until we have a selected corps for a year's distant service at least, the classification of our militia is now the most essential thing the United States have to do. Whether on Bonaparte's plan of making a class for every year between certain periods, or that recommended in my message, I do not know, but I rather incline to his." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1807. ME 11:202 more quotes available since Jefferson was rather yappy.... |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-09-06 20:39, Josh the Superfluous wrote: I believe that Crane's first guy had the commonplace that something horrible would happen to him, whereas the second (wiser) guy was afraid with the (less common, but wiser) concern that one might himself victimize someone in the course of his day.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-09-06 20:40, MagicSanta wrote: "Jefferson would have shot a knife welding whittler had he approached him." The knife wielder was approached by the cop, not the other way around. If that''s gonna be enough of a justification for you then the cop should be the one bleeding in the streets. And jesus ******* christ how ingnorent are you. "He believed EVERY male (even you lil' guy if you were alive then) should be trained as a defensive militia and be obligated to have weapons in order to fight should the country be invaded." He believed they should be allowed to be armed and defend themselves, not that they are obligated to. And in regards to the quotes you imply I cherry picked, I literally googled "Jefferson" and "standing army" and then copied and pasted. I am well aware of views on a militia, and the point is there is a difference between a militia and a standing army. I said absolutely nothing about people not being prepared to defend themselves, in fact I did not say a good god ***** thing. Again, merely copied and pasted, and did so to simply provide another person's view point on defending one's "country." Never said anything to even imply that it was a contrary one. Simply more insight into what is possible, rather than parroting pro military propaganda. How about you try not assuming so much next time.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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Noooo. he felt they were obligated to do so. He said it pumpkin'. I thought the point you were making is that Jefferson was the man and his word was rule?
see this quote? "We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can never be safe till this is done." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1813. ME 13:261 Not much gray area there slick, the whole, meaning in its entirety, all of 'em, danglers trained, innies not, got it? Danglers with the soul of an innie trained, innies who wanted to be danglers....no training....cool huh? |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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Seems to me that being prepared for war is only one very small part of what it means to keep peace.
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts
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An army is like life insurance.
Its something you should have and then strive *mightily* never to use.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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That was beautiful Jeff....
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » One of the best ways to keep peace is to be prepared for war. - General George Washington (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Sep 6, 2010 09:54 pm 
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