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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Here he goes again... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Michael Daniels
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It's at

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derre......#3120303

(29 days left to view)

Unfortunately complete with adverts

I'm not sure if this is accessible worldwide

Mike
John Vincent
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I agree, no actors or stooges.

This is a forum of Magicians and Mental people, of course we all enjoy seeing good quality magic and mind reading, but we all like other entertainment too!

This wasn’t magic or Mentalism, it was different. The opinions that range from dislike to enjoyment are just comments from different people explaining their perception due to all the reality filters they have.

We all have different opinions… and that’s all they are, opinions and obviously not the truth. However the opinion that we express reveal a lot about us as people.

I was able (with little or no effort) to enjoy Hero very much. I am also able to enjoy Derren’s Live shows and his past T.V work.

It’s our choice to enjoy things in life or not, I think the more we enjoy, the more we enjoy life.

In the film Matt chose to Freak out at the thought of getting on a plane, he did this very well and totally automatically, Derren gave him the opportunity to change the automatic behaviour and turn it into something much more resourceful. When we don’t enjoy things, we do have to opportunity to change our perceptions and then enjoy them, you just have to want to enjoy more.

Oh, and ‘Hi’ by the way… this is my first post…

What I find interesting is that Derren has in the past said he didn’t want to do stage hypnosis or therapy and so lead to him blending his hypnosis skills with magic to create his brand of Psychological Illusions. Now he helping people make life changes (therapy, in a sense, but really education) and I choose think that great too!
alpha alex
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Wow.. well a lot of people didn't like it
and you have the right

but I learned to not hear what themagiccafe has to say about derren
I guess I am a fan since I have liked everything he has put on tv

he is entertaining to watch
and I love there is a magician out there getting away from magic and making people discuss and think. it can only help our art.
El Mystico
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Interesting.
As a magician, it was a bit disappointing; it looked to me like he was using the same techniques as he has used before - particularly in The Heist.
But I watched it witth my daughter who loved it.

But I also think this; in his early programmes, Derren gave many viewers the idea that psychic powers were real. I get the impression he was uncomfortable with thiss, and has been moving away from that. I think this programme was the best expression of where he is trying to go; trying to empower those same people who think his powers are genuine to do something positive with their lives.

I think that is a brilliant use of his talents and fame.
Michael Daniels
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Quote:
On 2010-09-09 08:04, bobser wrote:
I think 'premise' and 'intention' are important in the critique of this performance.



I agree. The premise of the show, as of his other specials (also those of the other DB), is that the viewer will accept the reality of what is being presented. Once you accept this premise, then Derren's intention is clearly to entertain and, in this case perhaps, also to inspire. On this basis, you can't really fault the guy. It is a worthy intention and I can understand why those who accepted the premise enjoyed the show.

The calculation made by the production team must be that most viewers will accept that what is being shown is real (i.e., that "Matt", his "family", "neighbours" and "girlfriend" were exactly whom they seemed to be). It was a shrewd move, I think, to schedule the show directly after Big Brother.

The calculation must also be that those who don't accept the premise probably won't watch, or will switch over very quickly, unless (like me and probably a whole bunch of magicians, mentalists, psychologists and parapsychologists) you feel the need to see it through to the end out of shared interest. For these groups I imagine the show was a big disappointment (it certainly was for me). Perhaps the hypnotists among us found it more entertaining because they could readily buy into the hypnotism premise.

The overall "success" of the show (and of mentalism generally) ultimately depends, I think, on how well the basic premise (i.e., that this could be real) is established in the viewers' minds. For me, much of "Hero" just seemed too far fetched (e.g., the robbery, the train, the night visits by Derren). The crocodile bit was perhaps rather more convincing. I'm still considering that one.

Perhaps this all helps to clarify one of the key differences between mentalism and magic. Magic can be entertaining (even inspiring) even though most adult audiences these days are sophisticated enough to realize that the "magic" isn't real. On the other hand, mentalism, "psychological illusion", hypnosis and psychic shows are all pretty boring and inconsequential if you think it is just a trick, or is simply staged.

Mike
ThePhilosopher
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I have tried to stay away from Derren Brown threads, but here I go...

Garrad had an excellent point: we are looking at this as mentalists. Perhaps one of Derren's gifts is that he can see things as a lay person would. We all use a lot of fake psychology (NLP, body language reading, etc) to hide our methods, but there is a lot of real psychology that we forget about: the suspension of disbelief, emotional interest, etc.

I have never had a problem with the stooge\actor question. The shows that don't use them say it at the beginning, the rest obviously do.

Sometimes the TV edits can seem a bit too much for us, but Derren almost never does effects with a visible compromise. For him it is just another was to hide the necessary visual compromise.

For those who wonder if the guy was hypnotized in several parts of the show--just look for the REM type movements in his eyes. This is obvious.

Derren has already proved himself (and is "powers") to the general public. He is very well liked (by most lay people) because of his personality and entertaining style. That gives him the freedom to do things like this. The public has bought into the image that he created.

I think I was able to enjoy it because I did not see it as a mentalist or as a mentalism show. It was a reinvented Derren and a reinvented type of show.

I have a feeling he will continue to go this direction with future TV productions. However, his if he keeps doing stage shows they probably be in classic Derren style.

For those here who have a slight inferiority complex when they see Derren's success: maybe you can go on the next show, and he can make you into a hero too.
- Nathan
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Olympic Adam
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I have no problem seeing it for what it is, but when I look at it as television and want to be entertained, I found it very boring and dull. To me (again as television) it seemed quite wooden and NOTHING compared to the enjoyment I got when watching his first few television series or his live stage specials (both live and on TV).

this is the kind of effect that he might have put as a 5 min clip in one episode of trick of the mind, but he has just taken it out to 70 mins! he is living off his reputation in my view.

he has the ability to really wow me and inspire me, but he very much missed the mark here

his success is a good thing, makes people want to see others doing similar stuff (i.e. us!) I just would rather he would wise up and do some real television like the olden days.


**the link above about it being like Donnie Darko, on Derren's twitter he said

"Donnie Darko, The Game, Fight Club, Watchmen... Hope there was stuff there to amuse the film buffs. X"

about there being many film links
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
oralroberts
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Loved it.

also loved the line "Davenports instructions are hard to read"

*****
Michael Daniels
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Quote:
On 2010-09-10 09:49, oralroberts wrote:
Loved it.

also loved the line "Davenports instructions are hard to read"

*****


Yes, the best line in the whole show!

I have been pondering a little more and just have a sneaking suspicion that Derren may have set us all up for something that will be revealed in the second programme - being broadcast in a month's time.

Mike
Olympic Adam
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We (the public) are the next heroes!
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
Michael Daniels
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Quote:
On 2010-09-10 10:24, Olympic Adam wrote:
We (the public) are the next heroes!


I think it may be something more surprising than that - or at least I hope so!

Mike
mindpunisher
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Anybody that can watch Derren these days is a hero..I couldn't.
ALEXANDRE
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Many of us mentalists and magicians are sooooo skeptical. We don't know everything, people. We simply don't. Why isn't it possible that this show was exactly what it was portrayed to be? Why not believe Derren when he says that moment with the guy was his proudest moment? Why do we have to constantly second guess everything a guy like Derren Brown does? Are we afraid of, or feel "stupid", being "fooled" by him? I don't. I watched the show and took it for what it was, an inspiring bit of TV done in a creative way.


Quote:
On 2010-09-09 04:52, Ross wrote:
I thought the show was wonderful.

I too am a huge fan of the early Derren stuff (and his fantastic live shows) but I hugely admire the direction he's taken with this special, which I thought was similar to some of the Treat or Treat stuff. It took me a while to warm to that, but I began to love the empowering aspects of the 'effects'.

The bigger 'effect' last night was about shaking us out of the ruts we get ourselves into and forcing us to rethink our appraoch to life; to seize the day. To me, Derren came across as a strange, mysterious guru that uses bizzare and unconventional methods to shock their students into reevaluating their lives.

Some of the moments in last night's show will stay with me forever. Particularly, the moment the guy stopped at his door and turned away, breaking an unproductive cycle he'd gotten into. I thought this was hauntingly beautiful.

Everything Derren said to Matt also applies to the whole viewing audience. Last night, Derren worked his magic on me, and inspired me to reconsider some aspcets of my life. This morning, instead of sitting in front of the news on the sofa eating my breakfast, I went and had a cup of tea in the garden and looked up at the sky with renewed wonder.

I think some people missed the point.

Hat's off to Derren from me!



Good for you, Ross. Instead of waking up with unhealthy skepticism, doubt, disappointment, jealousy, anger, or boredom, you had a cup of tea in the garden and looked up at the sky with renewed wonder.

I'm with you, man.
Olympic Adam
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Quote:
On 2010-09-10 11:47, mindpunisher wrote:
Anybody that can watch Derren these days is a hero..I couldn't.


lol
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
Olympic Adam
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I WANT to see something that really amazes me when I watch Derren and I used to! there is no fear of being "fooled" (which is a very dirty word), if he can make me wonder how he does something, I will watch again and again and again. I'd rather be "fooled" than bored...

Being fairly skeptical in general myself teaches me not to just accept things and to question them. I say what I see and I don't need a show to make me enjoy my garden or my life.

In an art where lies and tricks are at the core, aren't we allowed to question a few things? we can't just absorb rubbish and pretend it is good because it is on tv. I think people need to wake up and realise that they can make their own decisions, and don't have to like what they are told. Once place I can get a message of skepticism across is in "mentalism".

One thing I have learnt from watching Derren (who is a big inspiration on whatever "mentalism" I do) is never ever, ever believe a word of what that man says, ever!

when people do think for themselves they get shunned and called closed minded, just for not going along with marketing and scheduling on TV.

Watch it again and then watch something Derren did to make himself a household name, then see what amazes us more. If this was all I had seen of Derren I would not be as involved in mentalism as I am.
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
Michael Daniels
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And of course the real irony here is that Derren himself is an arch-skeptic and debunker of psychics.

Mike
mindpunisher
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I never bothered watching the show. But I can tell you if you truly want to empower someone you don't have to go through all the crap that's been described on here. Its just pile of cow fuel.

I'm sorry but Derren is a fake psychic/mindreader persuader and he is also a fake psychotherapist.

Its over the top unbelievable and pretty corny. I think he should be buried with Big Brother..
Olympic Adam
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http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/09/he......estions/

some answers to questions. The questions were selected and the answers are mostly the same just worded differently. He shouldn't need to cover his back like this if all is as it seems.
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
Michael Daniels
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Yes, Derren does sound defensive but he is fairly clear (though it is carefully worded):

"But in something like this, which is not presented as a trick, to pretend Matt was real, or ignorant of the process when he wasn’t, is simply not an option. Even if I wanted it to be, which I don’t. I have NEVER used a ‘stooge’ (someone playing along and pretending to be fooled etc) in 10 years of TV work, despite the protestations of people who are convinced there’s no other method to be employed."

Mike
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