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ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2010-09-08 13:25, Dreadnought wrote:
This "Pastor" and his call for burning the Quran reminds of two different things said about similar issues.

I forgot how many years ago, five or six maybe, Georgia Secretary of Education Cathy Cox said in reference to a Georgia county burning books they considered bad,
"I saw and am very intimate with their test scores, they need to be reading those books rather than burning them.

Then there was Ozzy Osbourne who once quipped how he felt about religious groups burning hi albums, "Doesn't bother me, they have to but them first."

Peace and Godspeed.


"People burned Rutle albums in protest. Some people were buying them, just to burn them. Rutle album sales soared. Ron apologized to God, Rod and America and the tour went on, but it was to be the Rutle's last."
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Destiny
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I have just recalled that I did once burn a bible. It was called The Green Thumb Bible, and rather than eternal life, promised me plump red tomatoes and a wonderland of flowers outside my front door. It was a false promise - as usual I proved better at killing what I would propogate. In a fit of anger I added the book to the fire when I burnt the garden stakes etc I'd invested in. I hope my life is not now in danger from enraged gardeners.
Dannydoyle
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I may change my mind soon. I am given to understand that the burning may contribute to global climate change so in that case I am all for it.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Cyberqat
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For me,I cut through all the "free speach" etc noise like this...

Its not illegal to pass gas in an elevator in this country, either.

But 99% of America would say that your an idiot for doing it.

Just because its not illegal doesn't make it a decent thing to do. Human relations run on respect.

'nuff said IMO.

(Now if you WANT to get down into the nasty legalities, fact of the mater is that free speech is not absolute by any means. There are laws against "hate speech", and if burning someone else's holy book is speech at all then it is certainly hate speech.)
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
tommy
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I don't care so long as he don’t burn The Expert at the Card Table.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-09-09 11:24, Cyberqat wrote: . . .

(Now if you WANT to get down into the nasty legalities, fact of the mater is that free speech is not absolute by any means. There are laws against "hate speech", and if burning someone else's holy book is speech at all then it is certainly hate speech.)


See, this actually points out exactly the problem with trying to regulate "hate" speech.

Any speech of protest can be said to contain hate for that which they protest. If burning a holy book is considered hate speech, then why not burning a flag? What if you hate clothing? Personally, I REALLY hate wood. Especially dry small pieces piled up in a pit.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
balducci
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http://www.thestar.com/news/world/articl......ays?bn=1

The anti-Muslim pastor at the heart of a fiery debate about plans to burn the Muslim holy book acknowledged Thursday there's still a chance he'll call off his controversial attempt to mark the anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

In an interview Thursday with a Toronto radio station, Rev. Terry Jones said he's well aware of pressure coming from around the world. Political and military leaders are decrying the Florida pastor's plans to burn Qur'ans on the ninth anniversary of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

“We are of course taking all of those things into consideration, that is probably putting it lightly,” Jones, who heads up the 50-member Dove Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla., told radio station AM640.

“We are very much in prayer about it. There is the possibility, of course, that we will not do it.”
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-09-09 11:24, Cyberqat wrote:
For me,I cut through all the "free speach" etc noise like this...

Its not illegal to pass gas in an elevator in this country, either.

But 99% of America would say that your an idiot for doing it.

Just because its not illegal doesn't make it a decent thing to do. Human relations run on respect.

'nuff said IMO.

(Now if you WANT to get down into the nasty legalities, fact of the mater is that free speech is not absolute by any means. There are laws against "hate speech", and if burning someone else's holy book is speech at all then it is certainly hate speech.)


I strongly suspect that this will run afoul of any legally prohibited speech.

I like the elevator analogy. Hopefully the fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans think this guy is a jackwagon will be publicized as much as the burning. While I don't agree with his actions, I think the whole situation sends two great an important messages -

1. Most of us think this is offensive and wrong.
2. Despite that, he's not going to be legally prevented from doing it, because that's not how we do things around here.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Magnus Eisengrim
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It's a pity. Terry Jones was such a great Python. Smile


John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
critter
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Quote:
On 2010-09-08 11:20, kcg5 wrote:
Regardless of the pastor thing, who carries a gun?


I have my reasons.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2010-09-09 12:33, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
It's a pity. Terry Jones was such a great Python. Smile


John


An amazing one at that!

Lets be honest here guys, the real reason NOT to do it is that it is really just not a nice thing to do. You know, the same reason it is bad to build that thingie at ground zero? It is disrespectful to people who do not deserve it. In the case of the book burning it is disrespectful and unnessarily mean to millions who simply do not deserve such treatment.

I have no legal issue with it.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Cyberqat
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Actually, that 'thingie" at Ground Zero is supported by 50% of polled New Yorkers, who consider it highly respectful. Its a way of showing that religious difference doesn't have to mean intolerance. That people can respect and live next to each other despite their differing religions.

And it is religious intolerance that fuels suicide attacks like the 911 one.

The Imam in charge o that project has gone on record as saying he would welcome the participation of both Christian and Jewish organizations at the center.

Hitler was a Christian. He even used a warped form of Christianity to justify his atrocities (backed by a Christian bishop.) It doesn't mean that there should be no christian churches in Isreal.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-09-09 13:11, Cyberqat wrote:
Actually, that 'thingie" at Ground Zero is supported by 50% of polled New Yorkers, who consider it highly respectful. Its a way of showing that religious difference doesn't have to mean intolerance. That people can respect and live next to each other despite their differing religions.

And its is religious intolerance that fuels suicide attacks like the 911 one.


Which poll is that? The figured I've heard are roughly 1/2 opposed, 1/3 in favor, 1/6 no opinion.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Cyberqat
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Quote:
On 2010-09-09 13:14, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-09-09 13:11, Cyberqat wrote:
Actually, that 'thingie" at Ground Zero is supported by 50% of polled New Yorkers, who consider it highly respectful. Its a way of showing that religious difference doesn't have to mean intolerance. That people can respect and live next to each other despite their differing religions.

And its is religious intolerance that fuels suicide attacks like the 911 one.


Which poll is that? The figured I've heard are roughly 1/2 opposed, 1/3 in favor, 1/6 no opinion.


I'll need to look it up for you. This was something I heard as part of a reportwhen the thing first broke. I'll see what I can find.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
Cyberqat
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Bunch of info here... the demographics are too complex to sum up in a sound byte...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/nyregion/03poll.html

But of actual Manhattan residents, no more the 41% are opposed to it. That breaks down by income and education... the more educated and higher income bracket the respondent, the less likely they are to be against it.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
LobowolfXXX
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Thanks for the link.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-09-09 12:32, LobowolfXXX wrote:
. . .

I like the elevator analogy. Hopefully the fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans think this guy is a jackwagon will be publicized as much as the burning. . . .


THIS is the key. The solution to BAD speech is always MORE speech. You don't like what someone does, you can speak with your own words and actions. Refuse to associate with, or support them, or support those that support them, and encourage others to do the same.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
kcg5
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They wont end up burning the book.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
kcg5
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Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
LobowolfXXX
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This whole story reminds me of a tale a Buddhist friend of mine told me.

A group of Buddhist monks was at a remote monastery, and they were caught in a huge snowstorm that rendered them unable to leave and dropped the temperature down to a horribly cold level. One of the novices observed that they should start a fire to warm up, and so they started one with a little straw, but it was a small fire in danger of not lasting long. Another novice observed that they needed more fuel to keep the fire going. The Master got a wooden statue of Buddha and added it to the fire, horrifying yet a third novice, who could not contain himself and said, "Master, how can you burn the statue? It is of the Buddha-nature!" The Master gestured to everything around them and said, "What would you have me find that is not of the Buddha-nature?"

That's not verbatim, and I'm not a Buddhist, but that's the gist, and it always struck me as a nice illustration of what I think is an obvious point - When the symbol becomes more important than that which is symbolized, there's a problem. Whether it's a flag, a statute of Buddha, or Koran, or a Bible. If a professed Christian killed a couple of thousand people and invoked the name of Christianity, and a second guy burned a Bible in response, I'd like to think that most of the Christians among us would be more offended by the first guy.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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