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balducci
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Quote:
On 2010-09-12 10:24, Dannydoyle wrote:

Just curious balducci do you even have a religious faith you believe in?

Yes, Christian, as I've mentioned many times before.

Quote:
On 2010-09-12 10:24, Dannydoyle wrote:

ANYONE who claims this is some sort of "anti Muslim" anything is being untruthful. EVERYONE I have seen has simply said it is radical Muslims and nothing more.

Your second statement does not prove the first. I would disagree with your first statement, because I have heard from people who look at this as an "anti-Muslim" thing. I'm not saying many or most feel that way, but such people do exist. If you are saying they do not, then you are being untruthful. Or else you have not been paying attention.

Quote:
On 2010-09-12 10:24, Dannydoyle wrote:

You put up one article about how ONE family seems to think it is ok to do this mosque here.

I'm not sure which ONE article you are talking about, as I've actually posted several. Danny, there are lots of 9/11 families who support Park51 if you pay attention. They are easy to miss, otherwise, as they are not as "loud" as the protesters. Here are some more for you:

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/41580/

Donna O’Conner, who lost her pregnant daughter in the 9/11 attacks and is the spokeswoman for September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, said in a press statement, “We cannot bring back the family members we lost on 9/11 but we can try to recoup what is best about America. We are firm in our commitment to civil liberties and religious freedom.”

At the rally, she reaffirmed her support for Park51: “We [9/11 families] 100 percent fully support the Islamic cultural center in New York City.”

http://www.christianpost.com/article/201......dex.html

A group of religious and civil rights groups and family members of 9/11 victims announced on Wednesday the formation of a new coalition in support of an Islamic community center and mosque near ground zero.

Talat Hamdani lost a 23-year-old son, a paramedic, in the 2001 terrorist attacks. But she said supporting the Islamic center and mosque "has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with standing up for our human rights, including freedom of religion," as reported by The Associated Press.

http://www.chasingevil.org/2010/08/911-f......k51.html

Herb Ouida, whose son Todd died in the attacks, says he supports the Cordoba Initiative's project.
'To call it a mosque is not right. It's a community center that includes a prayer center,' Ouida told AOL News today.

The 68-year-old father from River Edge, N.J., says he is deeply concerned about the tone of some of the opposition to the project.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:
Quote:
On 2010-09-12 10:24, Dannydoyle wrote:

ANYONE who claims this is some sort of "anti Muslim" anything is being untruthful. EVERYONE I have seen has simply said it is radical Muslims and nothing more.

Your second statement does not prove the first. I would disagree with your first statement, because I have heard from people who look at this as an "anti-Muslim" thing. I'm not saying many or most feel that way, but such people do exist. If you are saying they do not, then you are being untruthful. Or else you have not been paying attention.

There is a valid argument that even many of those who do not intend this to be an anti-Muslim thing are inevitably making it so. Did you read this article?

"Muslims and Islam Were Part of Twin Towers’ Life"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/nyregion/11religion.html

It notes that even pre-9/11 there were not enough mosques in the area to serve the number of Muslims who work near the ground zero site. The nearest one was too far away for people working at the WTC to get to during the day at prayer times (which is why there were prayer rooms set up in the WTC). Now the attitude of many Park51 protesters seems to be, too bad, suck it up, we will never allow you to address this problem.

Maybe they do not mean this in an "anti-Muslim" way, but if you imagine yourself as a Muslim I think the message being sent by the protesters comes across that way.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
kcg5
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Do you have a reply to my posts? (about ppsting links from fringe site, and passing it off as fact or even truth?
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
Dannydoyle
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So lets leave it up to those offended shall we? You guys love to quote those family members who seem to be agreeing with you but how about a simply poll of who is offended. If it is more than 50% they move.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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Quote:
On 2010-09-12 13:01, kcg5 wrote:
Do you have a reply to my posts? (about ppsting links from fringe site, and passing it off as fact or even truth?

Who are you addressing? If you are referring to when I linked to something about a second mosque at AtlasShrugged, I think you misread / misinterpreted my post.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
critter
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For f's sakes people! If you polled people in the 50's about the "red menace" and whether all communists should be driven out of the country I'm sure you would have gotten over 50% affirmative too. That doesn't make McCarthyism right!
What we are doing to the Muslims right now is the same thing we did to the Japanese in World War II. Hey, maybe we could just round up all of the Muslims and experiment on them with gas showers and unnecessary surgery! After all, they are responsible for all of the world's problems. Or is that the black South Africans? No? Jews?
Have we learned nothing from history's lessons? Wholesale persecution=BAD!
Common Sense? Anyone? Hello? Table for Common Sense!
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
landmark
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"If you would like Republican press 1. If you would like Democrat press 2. If you would like to repeat this menu press 2012."
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2010-09-12 13:18, critter wrote:
For f's sakes people! If you polled people in the 50's about the "red menace" and whether all communists should be driven out of the country I'm sure you would have gotten over 50% affirmative too. That doesn't make McCarthyism right!
What we are doing to the Muslims right now is the same thing we did to the Japanese in World War II. Hey, maybe we could just round up all of the Muslims and experiment on them with gas showers and unnecessary surgery! After all, they are responsible for all of the world's problems. Or is that the black South Africans? No? Jews?
Have we learned nothing from history's lessons? Wholesale persecution=BAD!
Common Sense? Anyone? Hello? Table for Common Sense!


Yep there it is. Pain the others in the extreme so you seem more mainstream. That ought to do the trick.

Tell you why I suggested it. They want to post a single viewpoint as if it is the norm. It is not. So lets stop the oh this one family member said this is ok stuff. Otherwise by logical extension we just poll all of them and live with the results.

It is offensive and it is wrong and that really is the point. Much like burning any holy book of any sort.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-09-12 14:19, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-09-12 13:18, critter wrote:
For f's sakes people! If you polled people in the 50's about the "red menace" and whether all communists should be driven out of the country I'm sure you would have gotten over 50% affirmative too. That doesn't make McCarthyism right!
What we are doing to the Muslims right now is the same thing we did to the Japanese in World War II. Hey, maybe we could just round up all of the Muslims and experiment on them with gas showers and unnecessary surgery! After all, they are responsible for all of the world's problems. Or is that the black South Africans? No? Jews?
Have we learned nothing from history's lessons? Wholesale persecution=BAD!
Common Sense? Anyone? Hello? Table for Common Sense!


Yep there it is. Pain the others in the extreme so you seem more mainstream. That ought to do the trick.

Tell you why I suggested it. They want to post a single viewpoint as if it is the norm. It is not. So lets stop the oh this one family member said this is ok stuff. Otherwise by logical extension we just poll all of them and live with the results.

It is offensive and it is wrong and that really is the point. Much like burning any holy book of any sort.


Wow, that's not bigoted at all.
Better to let the majority decide and force the minority to go with the results?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
tommy
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McCarthy was right.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
MagicSanta
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When did the Islamic Community Center become Park51? Sounds so cosmo. I have no problem with them building the thing but I do have problems with people blowing PR bs up my shorts.

I also love the 'well they had a Muslim prayer room....' stuff. Yeah, they had it to shut people the hell up and avoid a lawsuit. Is that suppose to imply something? Is there anyone out there that does not believe that Muslims are willing to kill Muslims?

There is nothing wrong with Arabs or Muslims as long as they behave in a civilized manner. If they do not they can be carted off to a freakin' island and left their in orange suits. In fact if someone is an extremist Christian who wants to conduct violence the same thing, if they are a militant Budhist, break it up, if the are violent athiest, stop them too. EXTREMIST are the issue. I noticed no one cared with that idiot Kansas preacher burned the Koran, that is because that type of crap is expected from him.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
Wow, that's not bigoted at all.
Better to let the majority decide and force the minority to go with the results?


Ummmm I hate to break this to you but...http://www.laughtergenealogy.com/bin/opinion/republic.html

You make it very hard to take you seriously.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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There is nothing wrong with ANYONE if we ALL behave in a civilized manner. Yes the issue is behavior, and the idea that the violators seem to control the dialogue is what is wrong. I am not allowed to do things that are radical either.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
MagicSanta
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I agree. If they want to sit in the desert and gnash there teeth and leave others alone let them. When they decide to leave the village and just be murdering scum then they need to be stopped by who ever has the ability and guts to do so.
tommy
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Anyway since the conspiracy theory that it was the Muslims that did it has now been debunked, I don’t see the problem. Its not as though the Muslims are members of Skull and Bones. Shouldn’t the pastor rightly be burning the Jolly Rodger. In the land of the blind the one eyed pirate is king.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
critter
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Interesting that to the same people who are offended by the mosque at ground zero, it's perfectly alright to have a Christian gathering outside of a Planned Parenthood.
I've read the Bible too, and Jesus really didn't care for hypocrites.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
MagicSanta
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You know, I was pondering this last night and I can relate to the ones who think it is disrespectful. I had a friend killed in a drunk driving accident at Christmas of 1979. About six years ago they tore out the intersection to build a highway ramp and to be honest with you I was kind of upset because that location was where I would go past and remember her. I can see why family and friends might be upset. As for the idiots who are just anti Muslim....fya.
Woland
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By the way, if you attempt to bring a Bible into Saudi Arabia, it will be confiscated and destroyed.

And if you attempt to bring a Koran into Saudi Arabia, that does not meet with the standards of Saudi Islam, it will also be confiscated and destroyed.

The Saudis have destroyed more Muslim monuments than any other nation - no kidding. They feared that the tombs of the saints and other places associated with them would become idolatrous places of worship, and therefore destroyed them. They have also destroyed just about every evidence of Ottoman rule over Arabia.

And if a non-Muslim sets foot in Mecca, he will be executed.

Non-Muslim worship is strictly forbidden in Saudi Arabia, even privately. The idea that the Saudis would allow a Church to be built even in a non-Holy city like Riyadh is absurd. Much less that they would allow a memorial to be built near Khaybar to the Jewish Arabs whom the Prophet Muhummad PBUH had slaughtered in a mass beheading before seizing a 17-year-old widow, Safiyah, as his share of the booty, and making her one of his wives.

The fact that a self-ordained pastor of a tiny congregation can get news coverage by threatening to do something that the Saudi government does every day, does not prove that America is an intolerant country.

Let's keep it real.

Woland
critter
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Well yeah, I get upset when places of historical or sentimental value are destroyed too. I still don't think that the mosque has anything to do with 9/11 though. What, just because the bombers happened to profess the same religion it's supposed be the same thing? That doesn't compute to me.
Heck, the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland both profess to be Christians, but they obviously have a difference of opinion somewhere.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
MagicSanta
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I say we build a Christian Jewish Friendship center in Mecca, they'll let us, they are a peaceful people.
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