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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » When someone doesn't play by our rules... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Pakar Ilusi
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I see a lot of Magicians clearly and openly break our "ethics" rules regarding copying the acts of other Magicians... Amongst other "ethics" violations...

Nothing really happens to them.

Can "we" really do anything?

Other than complain and not like them, that is...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Payne
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And you would suggest what type of reprimand or punishment enacted by who?

Your ethics might not be my ethics and what are these "rules" you speak of?

I've never been given a rule book nor taken an oath to abide by some arbitrary ethical standard.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2010-09-15 23:22, Payne wrote:
And you would suggest what type of reprimand or punishment enacted by who?

Your ethics might not be my ethics and what are these "rules" you speak of?

I've never been given a rule book nor taken an oath to abide by some arbitrary ethical standard.


This is exactly my point. I actually agree with you Payne.

Ethics in Magic is purely academic.

Nothing can and has been done other than excluding those we don't prefer from our midst (banning from IBM etc..).

Look at the Masked Magician, for all the ranting we do... Nothing happens to him.

If nothing can or will be done, discussing it is really for naught... Imho.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Payne
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I don't see how banning folk from clubs and orgainisations they more than likely don't have memberships in is going to solve anything.

I myself do not belong to any national or international orgainisations. So if I decided to go on a exposure rampage there would be very little anyone could do about it.

Apart from banning me from the Café. Big threat there Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Pakar Ilusi
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Ditto.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Well, turning a blind eye certainly has worked throughout history, so let's try ignoring it and it will go away... Sort of like a chest pain...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Pakar Ilusi
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On 2010-09-16 22:10, mandarin wrote:
Well, turning a blind eye certainly has worked throughout history, so let's try ignoring it and it will go away... Sort of like a chest pain...


I have to disagree. We have never turned a blind eye. It is surely happening as night and day. I fully realize that.

It's just that nothing can be done about it. Or is being done about it.

People who blatantly expose, distribute or copy (with malice even) just get to go on their merry way...

If nothing can be done, then what's the point of discussing it?

Other than it becomes Group Therapy for us all... Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Mr. Mystoffelees
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OK, I give. So, what would you like to talk about?
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2010-09-17 08:24, mandarin wrote:
OK, I give. So, what would you like to talk about?


How about positive reinforcement?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Steve_Mollett
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Hey! You can't perform the vanishing birdcage--that belongs to Bautier DeKolta!!!
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
David Alexander
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People forget that the beloved Professor Hoffmann was once viewed as the arch exposure of his day. There was some controversy about a guy named "Tarbel" who wanted to market a home-study course in magic.

Some of the biggest "exposures" are by poor performers who go on stage un-practiced and un-rehearsed and denigrate the hobby they claim to love by doing a bad performance. Magic would be better off if these people were given honest feedback instead of the usual blather.
Pakar Ilusi
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The problem with feedback is this...

Who has the right to do so? And will said person's advice be listened to?

For almost any Art, even badly executed/performed ones, you can always find supporters.

Take Criss Angel for example, some LOVE him, some HATE him...

He can always choose to listen only to the ones who support him.

I will agree with you in that performing completely bad technique thus clearly exposing the gaff is wrong BUT, here is this threads question, what do we do if they then don't want to listen when we tell them it is wrong?

What can be done when they don't play by our rules?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
edh
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Nothing! Smile
Magic is a vanishing art.
preston eakins
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Honestly I know haw frustrating it is to give some one advice on a move and have them roll their eyes at you . or to invite them to a lecture and they never show up and yet they think they are the best. imho no matter how good you are you can get better you should always learn from others. so when you feel very frustrated over people who are so bad they expose instead of entertain. try to remember you can always learn from anyone even if your learning how not to do something. I keep trying to tell myself those things but I still get very frustrated. as far as exposure on any magic secret I have come to the conclusion that most lay audiences even those that have watched the masked dude they forget very quickly since they really have no true interest in magic now and then you get a engineer type that really want to know how to do those things are done purely from an engineers point of view. they are not likely the ones that are going to out you during a show furthermore I suggest you watch as many of those shows as possible so you can see what is being revealed so you don't to the exact same illusion the same way remember for any effect there is more then one way to pull it off so if your just a tad different the lay public will still be amazed again just my humble opinion
Pakar Ilusi
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Thanks preston eakins...

You might want to paragraph your thoughts my friend... Makes it easier to read for the rest of us to read it. Smile

Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Dan Bernier
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Actually, from my personal opinion, some of the biggest exposures are from some of the more known and famous magicians. The little guys are considered the scum because no one knows of them so it's safe to go after them. The big guys however, are supposed to be untouchable. Lord forbid if you exposed the decieftfulness of one of our top names. That will get you banned from social groups.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2010-10-11 02:10, Gospel Dan wrote:
Actually, from my personal opinion, some of the biggest exposures are from some of the more known and famous magicians. The little guys are considered the scum because no one knows of them so it's safe to go after them. The big guys however, are supposed to be untouchable. Lord forbid if you exposed the decieftfulness of one of our top names. That will get you banned from social groups.


There is some truth there... Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Dougini
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Well, Val Valentino, and Bruce Nash are the culprits who started this mess. Want to see the damage done? Someone tell me no one watches:

http://www.themaskedmagician.com/biography.htm

'Nuff said...

Doug
edh
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Quote:
On 2010-10-11 04:54, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-11 02:10, Gospel Dan wrote:
Actually, from my personal opinion, some of the biggest exposures are from some of the more known and famous magicians. The little guys are considered the scum because no one knows of them so it's safe to go after them. The big guys however, are supposed to be untouchable. Lord forbid if you exposed the decieftfulness of one of our top names. That will get you banned from social groups.


There is some truth there... Smile


There's a WHOLE lot of truth there... Smile
Magic is a vanishing art.
TonyB2009
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Personally I think the Masked Magician was one of the best things to happen to magic in the past two decades, and we all owe him a debt for the public awareness he brought to our art.

And I have no ethical issues with exposure.
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