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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts 
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If you dislike this, you might want to change your homepage. Then write MSN and tell them why.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts
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On 2010-09-20 15:04, Payne wrote: Apathy is better when compared to kicking up a big whiny fuss... However, I'd argue that the best way to deal with exposure is to be proactive about it -- figure out the knowledge that's out there, figure out whether or not you're going to get busted on your routines, and then alter the construction or improve the method as necessary. Finally, when you've done that, keep your improvements made to yourself! (Not speaking to you specifically, Master Payne.)
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts
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On 2010-09-21 05:27, Andrew Musgrave wrote: I agree.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Double J Veteran user 331 Posts
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On 2010-09-20 08:31, mandarin wrote: Although it is unfortunate, there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. Hence the "Who Cares". Apology accepted. |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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Thank you, JJ.
Now for some reasonable discourse- I do not understand how one can KNOW "there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it"? What have you done "about it" when you seem not to care enough to even raise a voice in protest? I will not restate previous posts, but I could not disagree more with your position- a position I find running rampant in many areas of society. I find caring to be invigorating! For the record, I care. About a lot of things. I doesn't make me tired, or angry- it makes me feel alive, worth the salt. Otherwise I would not even post. Which, of course, begs the question of why post if there is no care. Speaking just for me, I would rather care. Quoting Mr. Donne: "... for I am involved in mankind..." Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts
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I think the point is that yes it's good to care but by actively caring and doing something about it often makes the problem worse.
I'm always amazed about how people post a link to exposure videos before complaining. This only makes the video they're complaining about easier to find online. As soon as fuss is kicked up about anything like this then the exposure will get more exposure. I make my point by not watching these videos and switching of the masked magician, I can't really think of anything else I can do. |
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Double J Veteran user 331 Posts
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On 2010-09-21 07:58, mandarin wrote: I don't consider this to be much of a problem. I haven't heard of any solutions from those of you who think it is a problem. Probably because, like I stated before, there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. And Yes, I do know that there is nothing anyone can do about it. The only thing you can do, is make it worse. So why waste your energy?? That's not apathy on my part, just common sense. |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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So, you think protest by itself always "makes it worse"?
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Double J Veteran user 331 Posts
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On 2010-09-22 19:10, mandarin wrote: When it falls on deaf ears and you don't have numbers. I'll call that a losing battle. Are you going to protest to the same people that are revealing the magic tricks? Pretty sure they don't give a ****. In fact, most will likely continue exposing much more as long as they know it's p*ssing off you so called magicians. Maybe you can get Obama to give a speech from the White house lawn stating how unethical it is for non magicians to give away secrets. Yep, that should do the 'trick'. He can take care of that right after He locks down our borders from all the Illegal Immigrants coming in and trashing this country. Oh, sorry! I have my priorities mixed. Let's 1st take care of this HUGE problem of magic exposure. |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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I would think waiting until you "have numbers" qualifies as protest about as much as your sarcasm qualifies as reasonable discussion. So long ...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Double J Veteran user 331 Posts
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On 2010-09-23 09:59, mandarin wrote: No need to be upset. Just putting it in perspective for you. If magic exposure is still high on your list of subjects to protest, I have the answer for you. Make your routines more entertaining and the method will become secondary to whoever you're performing for. Remember, to me, it's no big deal!! There was much more to my last post than Sarcasm. You should go re-read it. |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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Well, dad always told me go with my first impressions...
FTR, I am not the least upset. When I said "so long" that meant I did not want to converse with you any longer. Please respect my wishes, and allow me to put things in my own perspective without your assistance... or do you expect thanks for your career advice regarding my shows? I did re-read your post, and you are correct- I have amended my comments as follows: I would think waiting until you "have numbers" qualifies as protest about as much as your INSIPID sarcasm qualifies as reasonable discussion. So long ...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts
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A few years ago I was part of a movement from Magic Video Depot that tried to put together a petition to stop exposure on Youtube. I tried to argue on its behalf over here at the Café -- I did so as "erlandish", maybe it'll come up in the search function (I personally can't be bothered to search it myself, that's how annoyed I was with the outcome of that whole event). Despite the efforts of those who wrote it, and those who argued on its behalf, the thing went nowhere as magicians with competing philosophies got bogged down in minutiae.
I realized then that it would be a waste of time waiting for a macro solution to the problem. Some will argue that it's too strong, others will argue that it's not strong enough, still others will argue that exposure is actually good, and the egos in the magic industry will almost certainly cause those who didn't write it themselves to object over anything right down to a misplaced semi-colon. To say that magicians can be a flaky bunch is a gross understatement. After that realization, I got introspective, and realized that while we might not be able to solve it on the broad scale, we can deal with it in our own personal performing situation. The result was a ten-part blog about exposure, which ended up getting picked up by Ellusionist. http://blog.ellusionist.com/paid-gigs-ch......xposure/ I offer this specifically to point out that some of us who think that large scale efforts to deal with exposure are useless DO take exposure seriously -- we just handle it in our own way.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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Andrew-
Thank you for an enlightening post. Interesting reading, your link, with great ideas about how to circumvent the negative effects of the exposure we face these days. Your experiences, in concert with many of the opinions toward the subject posted on the Café, have convinced me the magic community is ambivalent to the issue at best. I am not The Man of La Mancha, but feel an obligation to the profession to speak to the issue when it comes up. Most all of my posts have been in response to a thread, like this one, from someone else who is nonplussed by exposure, rather than an issue I keep bringing up. I feel I have a duty to respond, to say I do not support exposure, to say I care. Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Double J Veteran user 331 Posts
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On 2010-09-23 17:16, mandarin wrote: As I thought, You have totally missed the point. Doesn't surprise me. But you are welcome for the career advice. Put it to good use. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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On 2010-09-25 14:27, Double J wrote:... First, since when is there one point to a thing? Arguments like coins have two sides (at least). As a magicians it seems rather silly to write a claim that what one imagines is the only thing anyone could imagine. Perhaps you could work on making your arguments in a way that your intended reader could consider. Then perhaps they would be in a position to make a reply that keeps the discussion moving in productive directions. Whoops - just exposed a secret of communication. Do we have to move this thread to secret sessions? 
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts
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No Jonathan -- not secret enough. You would have to go deeper in explaining that when a antithesis is offered a dialectic is formed in which the final balanced pronouncement from their lips is what you wanted all along -- the secret being that what you originally offered is not your objective "point" at all.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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In jest: "How would you know if that's really your point if it has no dimensions and neither of us lives in the neighborhood nor are ware we an epsilon or a delta?"
Sorry, my capacity for tolerating facetious dialectics is lacking today. So rather than post the obvious from a quality perspective I'll leave the facile to chase the specious all the way to the spurious if they so choose.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Posted: Sep 20, 2010 08:55 pm 
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