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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Death of DVDs? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Domino Magic
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Quote:
On 2010-10-01 15:25, noble1 wrote:
The netflix plan to a magic creator isn't any incentive, what's in it for the working pro to share his best work? Peanuts.


What do you think magic DVDs pay? When you go to a large magic DVD producer, they typically pay the performer a flat rate and some free copies of the DVD. That's it. These guys aren't making a percentage of all sales. They make the same money if the producer sell 10 copies or 10,000 copies. From the performer's perspective, nothing would change. They would still make the same money. The producer makes his money over time, just as they do now.

Quote:
On 2010-10-01 16:43, motown wrote:
When Magic videos first came out they where few and far between. They represented some of the best in the business. A far cry from what were seeing today.


Let me ask you this - who is there left to capture on DVD? There aren't too many guys left that have the decades of experience worth putting on DVD. It was easy to do this 15 years ago when no one was on video. Well now they're all on video and the majority that's left don't have the years of solid experience. Some of what we see now are guys rushing to get anything and everything on the market because they can, not because they should.
noble1
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I could name at least a dozen top pros who haven't done instructional video and are worth their weight in gold to capture, but they probably never will do it because they make their livings performing for real people as opposed to being magicians magicians.
Cameron Francis
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Some producers do royalties.

As a side note, I find it very interesting that there seems to be this prevailing idea that only working pros have valuable ideas which should be shared.

Some of magic's best creators are hobbyists and some hardly perform at all. Some people enjoy the creative process but don't care to perform or at least they don't perform that often. And some of these guys would rather not get in front of a camera and do it.
Domino Magic
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Quote:
On 2010-10-01 21:57, noble1 wrote:
I could name at least a dozen top pros who haven't done instructional video and are worth their weight in gold to capture, but they probably never will do it because they make their livings performing for real people as opposed to being magicians magicians.


I know some names as well, but the fact is they're not willing to do it because they're working and don't want to release their working material. Like I said, when this first started years ago, there was more people to choose from. That isn't the case any longer.

quote]
On 2010-10-02 00:01, Cameron Francis wrote:
As a side note, I find it very interesting that there seems to be this prevailing idea that only working pros have valuable ideas which should be shared.

Some of magic's best creators are hobbyists and some hardly perform at all. Some people enjoy the creative process but don't care to perform or at least they don't perform that often. And some of these guys would rather not get in front of a camera and do it.
[/quote]

Cameron,

You bring up a couple of interesting points.

The problem with this market is the the average customer wants to be entertained as well as informed. If you get a guy who isn't a performer or not the best performer, it doesn't matter how great the material is, the set is going to get poor reviews based on that alone. The perfect example is a DVD set that came out a few months ago from Barrie Richardson. He doesn't make his living as a performer, doesn't have the most dynamic personality and yet his material is incredible. But sales were soft, no one was talking about the DVDs and most who were mentioning it were overly critical of his performance.

Pro or not, if they're not willing to get in front of the camera, it narrows down the choices. The selection of people to get on video is less than it was previously.
Chris
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Quote:
On 2010-10-02 00:01, Cameron Francis wrote:

As a side note, I find it very interesting that there seems to be this prevailing idea that only working pros have valuable ideas which should be shared.


I think this is an extremely important point. Think about somebody like Steward James. He was not a pro magician but what a fine creator he was. And there are literally dozens of other examples. Creativity is certainly not limited to the pro. I think we need to separate performing from creating. One does not need to be good in both to make valuable contributions to magic. For example Eugene Burger said himself that he never really created any new effect but that he worked a lot on the presentational side and as we all know he made immense contributions there. And then you have the pure creators somebody like Lubor Fiedler who didn't do much performing but invented some of the most clever tricks known to mankind.

And the fact that it has become so easy to get your ideas out and shared with the community (forums, blogs, ebooks, books, DVDs, CDs, ...) allows many more with creative ideas to contribute to the advancement of magic. Of course with the low hurdle to contribute comes a lot of noise. But we can weed out the bad relatively fast if we share our opinions. As an anecdote I removed yesterday an ebook from my website because after reflection it really was quite uninformed. That is just the tip of the iceberg. If we all write reviews and share our opinions we will find the good stuff.
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motown
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Milt Kort was another fellow who wasn't a working pro, but contributed a wealth great material over his lifetime. All you have to do is look at Bobo's Modern Coin Magic. Ed Marlos another. And there are many many more like them.

Domino Magic,
you're saying all the same things I am. The same is true for books.

Everyone want's to put out a Dvd. Unfortunatly there isn't enough fresh material to support all these projects. I keep feeling like I'm watching the same routines over and over again, because the material is all so derivative. All were getting is variations of variations and little original thinking.
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Dougini
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Quote:
On 2010-10-01 15:59, Mentalist Sam wrote:
If that is true, then why does Kozmo continue to put out DVDs? Based on his comment and yours, he's putting out sub-par material.


May I?

Kozmo has the series, "REEL MAGIC MAGAZINE - TV For Magicians" available. For $10, you get all the latest that's currently available, PLUS some excellent interviews and commentary from Paul Harris, Jay Sankey, Simon Lovell, etc.. Why would anyone bootleg a DVD, that you can get for 10 bucks? I imagine Kozmo puts out the DVD for advertising purposes, as well as information on what's good, who is "hot", and the thinking of our favorite magicians (your mileage may vary).

I think it's one of the smartest purchases I have made, as far as magic DVD's go. When I recover from my "setback", I plan to pick up my subscription where I left off, almost a year ago. I am not familiar with any other DVD's Kozmo has released, so I cannot comment there. One thing is for SURE. REEL MAGIC MAGAZINE, is one of the most valuable resources I have used, if just for the knowledge of the latest quality magic available. I don't have to spend HOURS at dozens of websites, to determine my needs.

Sub-par material is not an issue with that DVD. Neither is price. If anyone pirates that series, something is very wrong. Besides, it just multiplies the advertising, anyway. More publicity? LOL!

My $.02
Doug
Chris
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Rather than make generic statements like 'most DVDs released recently are bad' name the titles. Be specific and we will all be better off. Say which ones you didn't like and preferably why. And also mention the ones you did like. This thread is maybe not the best to do that but do make sure to share your insights. Then the bad ones will sell less and the producers will look for better material. I know from the magic that passes through my hands that there is also a lot of exceptional material being published today. You just have to open your ears and eyes, listen to what other trusted voices have to say and use a bit of common sense.
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Mentalist Sam
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Doug,

Your post, while interesting, didn't answer the question I asked. Both Kozmo and Noble both stated this:

Quote:
...a lot of guys aren't putting out the best work because of the theft of our work.


Quote:
Kozmo has it right, a lot of guys are no longer interested in marketing their best work.


So Kozmo, who produces DVDs, continues to put out new releases. Based on the two comments above, apparently it's not the best work that could be released. I mean Kozmo just said it.

I am very familiar with Reel Magic and I've seen pirated copies of it out there. Why would anyone bootleg a copy of something they can get for $10? Why would anyone bootleg a song they could buy for .99 cents? Because they can.
cairo
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I think Kozmo touched on something important. A dvd is a visual medium, unlike a book where someone like Richardson can shine with his ideas without performing skills. Reel Magic is a magazine format which is great and shows a lot of sides of magic, but it is not stictly a teach-a-trick format like the dvds we are discussing here. Since amateurs make up the bulk of magic sales it makes sense that there's a demand not only for methods, but also for serviceable presentations which is why the teacher's performing skills come into play. This might also be why some producers use the over-hyped fake-feeling audiences to help sell the idea that the presentations are sensational.
Dougini
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Quote:
On 2010-10-02 14:28, Mentalist Sam wrote:
...Why would anyone bootleg a copy of something they can get for $10? Why would anyone bootleg a song they could buy for .99 cents? Because they can.


Hmmm. Good point, Sam. I agree. Thanks. Smile
Billgussen
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Quote:
On 2010-10-02 14:28, Mentalist Sam wrote:
Doug,

Your post, while interesting, didn't answer the question I asked. Both Kozmo and Noble both stated this:

Quote:
...a lot of guys aren't putting out the best work because of the theft of our work.


Quote:
Kozmo has it right, a lot of guys are no longer interested in marketing their best work.


So Kozmo, who produces DVDs, continues to put out new releases. Based on the two comments above, apparently it's not the best work that could be released. I mean Kozmo just said it.

I am very familiar with Reel Magic and I've seen pirated copies of it out there. Why would anyone bootleg a copy of something they can get for $10? Why would anyone bootleg a song they could buy for .99 cents? Because they can.


And where in their posts did you interpret that *none* of the creators are putting out their best stuff? In the English I grew up on, "a lot of guys" does not encompass the whole. Does it you your dialect? A video producer's job is to find talent and try to get them to put out the best products possible. So who would know better than a video producer that there is talent out there not willing to share their work because of piracy? I'm sure it's very frustrating to see a great act, want to sign the guy, and to hear that you might have signed him if he wasn't legitimately afraid of people spreading his work all over the Internet for free.

Your idea that the world of piracy has not changed in three decades is preposterous. In the "back then" of your previous post, bootlegging was done mainly by rip-off artists trying to pass off duped VHS copies as the real thing to profit on it. Now anybody can be a pirate with just a few clicks of a mouse. And profit isn't even a motive -- people steal other people's work, put it up for the entire world to download for nothing more than the ego boost provided by some anonymous "thank yous" on a thread.

You seem to be arguing that piracy isn't a significant problem, but you give absolutely nothing to back up your claim. Then in comes Kosmo to say how it is a significant problem, and your reply is an accusation in the form of a question. Wow, that really showed class.

You made some good points on how the industry has changed, but your attack on people whose jobs are directly affected by this form of stealing makes all your good comments really easy to ignore.
edh
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Quote:
If we all write reviews and share our opinions we will find the good stuff.


Chris, the problem is that if you give an honest review and go into the specifics of an effect. If it turns out that you don't like a product you will be set upon by the masses for "bashing" the creator.
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Mentalist Sam
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Quote:
On 2010-10-02 19:25, Billgussen wrote:
You made some good points on how the industry has changed, but your attack on people whose jobs are directly affected by this form of stealing makes all your good comments really easy to ignore.


Ok, then just ignore my comments.
Steven Leung
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Just a personal sharing, DVD is really dying.

Because they will making 3 disc DVD set into 1 blu-ray disc for sale again.

One storage medium kills old ones is just a matter of time.

Still, the best secrets of magic are published and kept in books.
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Domino Magic
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Blu-Ray isn't what will replace DVD. It's going to be streaming and it's easy to see why. For the average customer, streaming is impossible to bootleg. It follows what is happening with media in general. Think NetFlix. Think Amazon's video rental. Think iTunes Video rental. Think Rhapsody for music.

Blu-Ray doesn't solve any problems. A 3 DVD set on one Blu-Ray disc? Who cares? It's still going to cost the same. Blu-Ray doesn't equal convenience. Do you know of any magic producers moving their titles to Blu-Ray? I can't think of one. Do you know any magic producers who are moving to streaming? I do.

Video downloads from some magic producers has been available for several years now, so our marketplace is used to this. Streaming is new, but has already been implemented. There is no incentive for magic producers to release their titles on Blu-Ray because there are not enough customers to buy it. VHS to DVD is a different thing. DVD to Blu-Ray, for the average customer isn't.
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