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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » File Sharers at it again (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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DekEl
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Creates MindTricks. Has exactly:
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Quote:
On 2010-10-04 15:44, EventEntertainer wrote:
Great, yet another blow to consumer privacy. Guess people should revamp their "we value your privacy" statement.


True. Regardless of the legality of what they do, a certain level of privacy should hold.

That said, I think you'd better keep the list among friends Tom, because if someone knows their name is on the list, they'll just know they need to change their ID, do so, and still buttonhole the sellers, if you perceive my logic. By keeping it secret, they won't know, and continue to try and buy/get by with their existing names, emails, and PayPal accounts, enabling your inner circle to successfully prevent the spread of information.
You can purchase my works at: http://www.GetMindTricks.com
entity
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Consumer privacy?

File-sharing thieves aren't legitimate consumers. They're thieves.

DekEl: There's more to the story than what I'm sharing here. Stay tuned.

- T. Baxter
Davidicus
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Look Ma!
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OK maybe I read too much into your statement. If I buy XXX from you, I would expect you would not share your customer list with anyone without consent or notification. This is, and remains my view. "Buy" is the key word here.
entity
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Thanks, Event Entertainer.

I'm not talking about sharing a list of customers. The list I'm sharing is comprised only of those proven to frequent illegal file sharing sites.

If people don't want to be on the list, they shouldn't join or remain members of file sharing sites. File sharing sites that offer copyrighted works are involved in an illegal activity.

T. Baxter
lunatik
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Non-Paying consumers shouldn't have any privacy. Just because you consume, doesn't mean you did so with integrity
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
entermagic
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I believe the thieves are the customer who starts the sharing.
These persons must be punished. I suggest a method in order to reduce the file-sharing:
Put the consumers info crypted inside the pdf without inform them.
If someone will share the pdf you need just to download it and to read the crypted info, then start a legal action with this person.

MP
entity
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To take legal action in a variety of countries would be costly and time-consuming. Many of the people doing the sharing are kids or teenagers who don't own any money to speak of. If you went through the time and effort and cost to sue them or lay charges, you might win, but how would you collect? The courts and law enforcement agencies are already over-burdened with much more serious crimes than copyright theft, so such a case is not a priority for them.

The file-sharing thieves know this, and so they think that they operate with impunity. It's up to us to come up with methods and tactics to fight back ourselves, and to let file sharers know that they will no longer be anonymous or be able to steal without consequence.

- T. Baxter
BarryTX
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Good thought entermagic, and I agree completely. Another thought - even just telling the purchaser that his copy has been encoded with their registration information will likely cause the average Joe to stop before giving that file out, even if it doesn't bother the large-scale pirates.
Ben Harris
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I am all for the public shaming of these thieves. It's quite shocking to see who is involved, who is hiding behind the clever little names and "handles." People who you've assumed were your FRIENDS through a shared love of magic. (Excuse the pun.)

Benny
+Inventor of the world famous Floating Match+
+Author: Machinations (Vanishing Inc, 2020)+
EVERYTHING BEN HARRIS
entermagic
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I repeat again... In my opinion who must be punished is who tries to share.
If nobody share anything the file-sharing disappears. If you intimidate the customer
90% of sharing disappears.

Another strategy to avoid file sharing is to sell everything with an huge price:
If you pay something like 1000$ I don't believe you will share it, only a stupid will put away 1000$.

MP
entity
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I don't want to intimidate my customers. Most of them are wonderful, law-abiding people who respect my work.

I'm only interested in going after file-sharing thieves. So that's what I'll be doing.

Selling things for $1,000. doesn't work either. Not only won't you sell many copies, but it'll end up on the file-stealing sites as well.

T. Baxter
entermagic
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Entity, apart to inform the customer to avoid to share your ebook you cannot do anything. :-(
Anyway the biggest shame for the magic community is another site: It is not rapishare, torrent, emule but something different and I cannot write here ( entity I sent you a PM)

MP
danroberts
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Internet Piracy is a hard thing to stop, it can be controlled, I would have thought that such a community like magic and mentalism with the basic rule never to reveal the secret to your tricks or like Christian Bale says in the film The Prestige "The method doesn't impress anyone" LOL I like that film LOL

But like entity says putting a bigger price on your product wouldn't solve the problem but I am sure there is a way to encrypt the ebooks and videos for each customer so you know who has betrayed you.

Dan
IAIN
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I wish more people would put viruses in some ebooks and put them up on those torrent sites...
I've asked to be banned
danroberts
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Sure torrent site are filled with virus or they are just ways for hackers to get into your pc, one of friends show me a site years ago and you should have seen me after the amount of worms and virus that infected my pc, I was soo p*** off.

Its doesn't appeal to me that piracy thing, I like my cds, dvds and books.

Dan
Mr. Mystoffelees
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I am with you, Dan... always someone in the gutter waiting to steal your balls...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
lisheng
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Tom, while I applaud your efforts in trying to curb piracy this way, I'm pretty sure that it will solve perhaps 0.1% of the problem.

First, take a look at how people obtain their original material -
1. Through a retailer
2. Through a convention
3. Through independent sales
Perhaps you can target the 3rd group of people (the minority), but you definitely can't stop the other 2. You're pretty much just cutting off your own customers because if they don't share your material, they'll share others. Due to the insanely large amount of files available, your material can become totally negligible. No offense intended.

Next, trying to take files down from torrents / direct download sites - it's just not going to be a long-term solution. Having a decade of experience in the security industry, I know - I've had my share of research dealing with that kind of piracy. Let me explain why...

User finds a sharing site -> User tries to prove his worth to enter the site -> User is accepted and put on probation -> User shares constantly and is accepted in the community

That's what's happening right now, because most of the "big" sharing sites have been built up. I did some research and now realized that there are more than 10 "big" magic sharing sites now. Guardician is just one of the more exposed ones - and it's small compared to some of the rest.

The files will always exist on local hard drives. Deleting them on remote drives like direct download sites (RS/MU/HF/FS/etc) will just prompt more people to upload "mirrors" to gain their reputation on those sites. So imagine, you delete 1 link, 2 pop out. 2 are deleted, 4 pop out. 4 are deleted, and then you have 16 different links on 16 different file hosts, most of which can't be bothered with your complaints because they don't want to bother their customers (who have paid them good money to use the file sharing service). Which is another point which you need to realize - many people do not need to buy from anyone anywhere to scan and share - they can just download from one source and upload to another. Seedboxes, dedicated servers - these people have invested heavily in equipment that would make your home PCs added together look pale in comparison. Uploads can be done within minutes, especially copies of books.


It's hard for you to take any legal action because of international laws. DMCA only applies to non off-shore countries. Malaysia is an off-short country and many hosts there will not even bat an eyelid when they see any DMCA notice. Sending DMCA notices to file hosts won't do you any good as well, because all the big companies in the world (not just magic) have already tried (Hollywood, Microsoft, Google) and they're not getting anything except trouble and money losses out of it. The file sharing sites provide a service for files to be shared - the users are responsible for what they upload and download.

Sites / forums that host links to downloads can't be taken down as well because they're technically not hosting illegal downloads, just providing links to them.

Yes, file sharers is one problem - but copying of products is another. And you can't stop it from happening as well. I helped Yigal Mesika deal with the piracy of his Tarantula and advised him that trying to find and sue a company in China is like searching for a needle in a haystack, and trying to sue a cow for eating grass (or something to that effect). They will never listen to you because corruption is so bad there that you can be dealt a death sentence and you can pay your way out of it. If you're a westerner trying to sue a Chinese in China, there's a 99.9% chance that you'll lose, even if you've paid them well. That other 0.1% that you succeed - little or not punishment will be dealt anyway. If you can't even stop physical products from being replicated, you definitely can't even grasp how anonymous and wide the web is.


According to many people who are in these sharing sites, the reason for piracy is this - too many products and videos are being launched / published lately. After buying many of them, you realize that it's crap (again, no offense to anyone) or it's overhyped / overrated. You realize that it's impractical, the trailer is filled with stooges, camera footage is edited / misfilmed, or maybe the advertisement for it is misleading etc. They don't want to be victims of this anymore. But also, apparently, the biggest sharers are also the biggest buyers of magic and they don't share the good stuff. At least that's what I've heard and been told.


So, maybe you can find some people who share on the sites and ban them from buying from you / a few other people.. Or many other people... But I think that this solution isn't going to work out.

I hope no one gets offended. Just my opinions and research findings.
AttnPls
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I program e-commerce software and have often considered opening an online storefront that would automatically encode the purchaser information in the e-books sold. This could be done both overtly and covertly and I believe this is one of the best ways to dissuade people from publicly sharing these files.

If there is enough interest in this service, I would be happy to set it up. Just send me a PM.
lisheng
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IMHO, that wouldn't help much either. Aside from the fact that there are sharers who just openly scan the books with their names and whatever on it, this method also makes sabotaging someone else easier. New accounts can be also created to make themselves equally anonymous (together with new paypal addresses, mailing addresses, etc). Furthermore, if there's a way to put something like that in, there's a way to take it out. Trust me, there is no short of people with talent to do so in their community, as there is no short of people to do the encoding in ours. In fact, I have already made such a plug-in for osCommerce and OpenCart since years ago.
entity
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The Best thing that can be done is for creators to talk to each other and share their information. I don't expect that my list will stop piracy, as there will always be people who want something for nothing and are willing to even betray their "friends" to get what they want.

But sharing this every-growing list with creators who market their wares directly will allow us to know a group of people that we should NOT sell to. Even if we only bypass a small percentage of the thieves, it's better than doing nothing.

The creators I've contacted are behind this, and we are already comparing notes.

- entity
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