Hi, my 1st post

I am a devoted Christian, do a little gospel magic when asked by my church or other churches that know me but mostly do normal children's shows and restaurant magic.

I went up to a table the other night did a bare hands bill production and then went into a small Dlite sequence with the little girl at the table. At that point the father became angry and said "I rebuke you" He thought I was pulling something real (spirit) ??? out of his daughters ear or something. He was from North Africa so I can assume that they are influenced by witch doctors and vodoo magic and he might have been a converted Christian not understanding the entertainmjent of magic. I said to him that it was only a trick for entertainment and that I was a Christian, I appologized but he would not hear of it and only said again that he rebukes me.

I left it as poiitely as I could , informed the manager who only laughed it off but did try tell him as well that it was just trickery.

I have done the Dlites hundreds of times and never had anthing like this. In the past at the restaurant when I have known someones a Christian, usualy get my clues from asking which schools the children go to, I will usually do a gospel rope trick in the restaurant so this disturbed me.

What made me wonder is that this guy is probably going to a 'church' where a false type preacher is tellng them all sorts of weird prophecies, taking money etc yet he thought I was evil ???

Any thoughts

My thought is to be careful how you judge. You don't know this person's history, nor background so it is best not to jump to conclusions. A good steward will always be sensitive to others, no matter how weird we might think they are.

Other than that. It sounds like you handled the situation as best as you could. That's all you can do. Trying to educate them about magic is not always the way to go with people who have a hard time with magic. Just respect their beliefs and move on.

Wow Wee...welcome to The Magic Café! We are honored that you began your journey in this set of forums with us.

When you meet folks that have a problem "magic" in a table hopping situation, just sincerely apologize for anything you did that caused them concern. Share that your realize sleight-of-hand is not everyone's cup of tea. Express that you hope this doesn't damper their experience at the restaurant that evening and excuse yourself. That's it. Tell the manager in case they make a complaint so it doesn't catch them off guard, but through it all show respect to the person you have "offended." They are a customer first, your audience second.

You will never make everyone happy. Fear of what one don't understand is a symptom of simple mindedness about a topic. You are not dealing with an idiot, just someone who likely has a legitimate fear of something and you have sparked it. Don't fuel the flame.

As for the church they go to, that could be true...but it is more likely this person is a new Christian and doesn't understand the difference between what the Bible condemns as magic and what we do as entertainers. However, you are NOT the one to correct this for them. Lift them up in prayer and leave it in God's hands.

><> J

I uderstand the feeling, My own mother rebukes me anytime she see's me working on any type of magic effect. My mom is in her late sixties and she has spent most of her life in very conservative pentacostal churches. I have attempted to explain to her on numerous occasions that these are simple effects and quick hand movements I even let her read the FCM article "Should Christians do Magic?" that I translated for her to spanish. This is the problem, she grew up in Puerto Rico, and her parents (my gradparents) were involved very heavily with santeria (Afro-latin Vodoo) so she witness many things, such as demonic manifastations, demonic possesions, and etc... So when she became saved, all these expirences stayed with her so she now belives that any type of effect or sleight of hand is evil. For people that have either seen or been involved in the "supernatural" or the occult the word or even an implication of "magic", carries with it some very negative stigma. That said I continue to pray for my mom and others like her that the Lord open their eyes to the reality that gospel magic has no supernatural involvement and that the effects are soley to open the door to spread the Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who died for our sins, rose from the dead three days later and now sits at the right hand of the father, Amen.

Always make it clear that you are doing tricks, not "magic".

I am going to do tricks that are so good they look like real magic, but they are not! The are just tricks, but if I do them right, I will trick you real good.

Hadden Robinson, a Preacher's Preacher, performed magic in his youger days, and often comments that a card trick is not magic. And that God probabley really doesn't mind if we do these silly tricks. Where the Bible warns us is against "MAJIC", consorting with spirits, and the like.

Be sure also to let the effect be a tool to help convey the message. So when all is said and done, the message is what remains.. This makes it much harder for folks to try to label you as a blasphemer, etc. etc.

However, that all said.... Some people are wound so tight, or possibly have been touched in a bad way by "majic" that you will still have some negativity from time to time.

Do as you have already done, pray! But pray that you Glorify Him, and let the magic be secondary to the message that honors HIM.

I actually do mentalism type effects with a Message, but am clear that it is all a trick, and my skill at trickery is what ehy are seeing, not spirits at work..

Doctor Cognos

I love to mention Dr. Warren Wiersbe- former senior pastor at The Moody Church in downtown Chicago, and later head of the national radio broadcast "Back to the Bible"- and the author of at least (very conservative guess) 100 religious books and Bible commentaries. See a list at http://www.christianbook.com A terrific author and a wonderful preacher- I heard him many times at "Founder's Week" at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. Yet- Abbott's Magic Company in Colon, Michigan, still publishes even today (and has in stock) Dr. Wiersbe's books on thimble magic. I have a signed copy of his early "Tantalizing Thimbles" I think it was called.

He may have drawn a false conclusion due to the soft colored lights --perhaps often associated in myth with ghosts and spirits. Try sponge bunnies, perhaps?

In my country people are very superstitious, unfortunately there are many people like this in church, in other side churches here are very conservators (generally) when I'm using magic gospel,I say that I'm going to use maths jokes, illusions, never speak the word magic.
To prevent some bad interpretations, in our ministry we have made cards withe normal paper, without the facing.
Normally I use prestidigitation, that's says all -- my hands are faster than the people's minds.
I understand you when you say you had been "rebuked", once I've made a close up in a dinner with my wife aunt and she though that I was a wizard. I made the glass pass through the table.

All you can do is to be nice and educated to the people, and continue your work.

At the same time put it all in the hands of our Good Lord.

Just remember that is not easy to be a Christian and perform magic. We must be very "attached" to God.

p.s. Sorry my English

Thankyou for all the replies.

Living in south Africa I have had a few people phoning me at times to ask If I can help them gaining health, prosperity etc when they see my adverts or find me online and think I can do "real magic". The sad thing is that there are other people, frauds mostly, that will take their money and offer to do these services for them.

I understand this man all too well. Unfortunately, I once rebuked a world-class performer who was giving a free show to my child's school - he's never come back. I knew about suffling and dealing cards and palming coins, but not this kind of stuff!

Then I happened across an Abbott's catalogue and saw that I could buy almost everything he did, even the floating table! I felt very stupid, and sent him a letter of apology.

I would have to ask how you approached the table. Did you ask permission before you started? Is there any advertising about your services in the restaraunt that would have alterted this man to a strolling magical entertainer? I don't do restaraunts, but I did hear of one idea that sounded wonderful to me - a folding "tent" card on each table advertising and explaining about you; if they don't want magic, they simply lay the card down, and you only go to the tables where the card is standing up.

Ed

Hi Wow Wee!

I also have been "rebuked" at a performance. Once, at a Baptist Church, I was asked to come and perform for a group of children, while the service was going on upstairs. The kids apparently were so impressed, the Pastor asked me to perform after the service for the adults.

The mistake I made, was performing a Floating Ball. A lady freaked right out! She ran crying, out of the church, yelling something about "Satan" or "demonic activity", or the like. I felt so bad. I never realized the impact of that illusion. I told the Pastor, it was a simple trick, and I was sorry for offending anyone. He said it was his mistake, and I was not at fault. I was never invited back.

Recently, at a Pentecostal service, I did a Coins Across for a few members, who seemed to be interested. One fellow took me aside, and recommended I put my coins away, and never do that sort of thing again. He said that was the worst thing I could do, if I am a Christian. He put his hand on my shoulder and prayed some pretty heavy stuff.

I don't know what to think, now. I've done magic tricks for more than 36 years, and never realized the impact it could have on certain "Christians". I was Born Again in 1977, and do not want to throw a monkey wrench in ANYONE'S religious beliefs, let alone a Christian's! I fully understand Wow Wee's confusion.

Doug

Doug, if you think it's rough having people you hardly know rebuke you, try having your own mother rebuking you and telling you you are being used by satan. It is very hurtful, especially when you truly love the Lord. From what I have been exposed to at this forum with the other members of FCM, I believe that this organization has a heart, for lost souls, and as long as the message of Jesus Christ sacrifice on Calvery, his ressurection and acension remain in the forefront of the message than that's what truly matters. Skills with sleight of hand, or gimmicks used for an effect are not whats important. As a member in the body of Christ your accountable to God only!!! No man can point and judge if you are relaying the true gospel of Christ through your talent. What I have learned is that we cannot change the hearts of men only God can do that, the only option for us is to ask God to bless those that curse and misunderstand what we do to further the gospel. Jesus warned his disciples that this would happen and in Matthew 10:14 he says to them: If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. It is again repeated in Mark 6:11 And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them." At times even the most devout Christians can error in judgement, and accuse a brother in Christ of wrong doing with out even praying about what they are about to say to you. In situations like this you have to behave as the more spiritually mature Christian and forgive the offending bretheren and move on.

That would be true if all we were doing was spreading the message of Jesus Christ. However, we, as Gospel magicians take it a bit further by using magic to spread the message of Jesus Christ.

Let me be first to admit that it is still a controversal way of spreading the truth. And, not a necessary one. How many of us would still evangelize if we couldn't use magic? How many of us use magic because we love performing magic? How many of us love evangelizing because God loved us enough that He gave His only begotten Son to die in our place for our sins that we committed, an we love the world enough that we wish no one to perish?

The only, and best way to spread the truth is in it's raw form, by the authority, and through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Nothing less, nothing more. We add more, not God.

We add more because of our selfishness, and I'll challenge anyone who says different, even myself.

It is our selfish desire to be the center of attention that has us performing Gospel magic, not a calling, or a specially gifted ministry.

God doesn't call us to perform magic, but He does call us to be witnessess. How we witness is left to us and our gifts and talents. But let us walk first in the path of righteousness and not aim for self gain, seeking nothing more than to be servants for the Lord.

We are ignorant and self fulfilling creatures who feel that if we can take something, anything, and think we are glorifying God with it because we mention His Words that we are doing good things for the Kingdom of God. This is not always the case.

We have to be aware of that, and be sensitive to that. If we are not, then we are doing what we do for selfish reasons, and are forgetting that we are servants, not Lords.

The only thing we can honestly justify is the truth of the Gospel message, not our magic. Once we try to justify our magic we loose the message.

100% correct, Gospel Dan! I never looked at it that way! Plus, I never, ever want to offend anyone with what I do. I perform magic, because it's something I love, carnal as it is. I do not want to offend a brother/sister in Christ, OR someone who is not.

I think I'm going to be more careful, and ask questions, before I whip out the ol' coins, and start makin' them fly all over the place! This has been an enlightening topic for me. Thank you!

Doug

While I am careful and considerate, I do not feel at all that I am somehow harming a brother or sister in Christ by performing magic. Our performance is born out of the GIFTS our Lord has given us. I know that my magic brings joy to people. I know that for a space in time, people experiencing magic with me are loosed from the bonds of day to day survival that we all face.

Do I apologize to these people who are superstitious? No. I am polite and will say, "I had no idea that your faith teaches that magic is evil, so, as not to offend, I shall bid you God's blessing and a good evening." If they PRESS me, I will gently say to them, "if I TRULY had magical powers - evil or otherwise - do you think I would be doing card tricks and coin tricks in a restaurant?" I am gentle but firm in this and believe it or not, I have brought a smile to these people if nothing else, and we can agree to disagree. Oft times however, they will relax and ask me to perform.

Ahimsa,
Vlad

Doug,

I read your post, and YOUR answer lies with your sister and the faith to which SHE devoted herself.

But, that is best left to private discussion rather than risking a HUGE flame war against a discussion of truth.

But I WILL say this OPENLY: The man who prayed the heavy stuff over you judged you. GOD is our judge. No priest, minister, nun, monk, rabbi can judge us in matters of faith. Your Orthodox sister who is a nun would tell you this as would any priest, minister, nun, monk, or rabbi who are TRUE to the belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Ahimsa,
Vlad

Ya know Vlad, you are right about my sister. I have discussed this with her, and you said it! She has told me the exact thing! You are both right. God is our judge. The gentleman in question innocently assumed he was doing the right thing, and I won't judge him, or hold him responsible. Thanks, Vlad! Discussion of Truth is always welcome with me, my friend!

I learned a simple lesson. My sister told me not to take it personally, as there are many beliefs and levels of those beliefs. And that I am correct in, that I do not want to offend. I can be a little too comfortable in situations sometimes. The gentleman told me recently that he felt he might have been rather harsh, and hoped I didn't take it wrong. I said I fully understood. And, I didn't. I just had to really look at what I am doing.

There are people in that group that LOVE sleight of hand, and I'm gonna bring my Okito box next! LOL! It just kinda makes ya think, when people are shocked at magic. I guess the real truth of the matter is, I must be pretty good at it, if they think it's real! Ha! LOL!

Best,
Doug

Woo Wee,
I would approach the table and ASK them if they would like to see a trick or some sleight of illusions. They can say no and you move on they would have not seen any tricks to offend them.

I usually tell folks one of two things...I introduce myself as the house magician and ask them if they would like to have a magic moment...(if you're on a date, magic moments are great...)

If they don't want it they tell me no and I thank them and wish them a nice evening. You don't want to force yourself on anyone at a restaurant. I've had them turn me away only to later have me come over when they saw other adults having a good time.

As for churches, having worked in them doing magic since 1982, 98% were pentecostal, very conservative, and they didn't have a problem with what I do. It's all in the presentation

It amazaes me that there are many magicians, not Christian, that want to be seen as 'real'. If you have seen these contact lenses that are about to come out, I think they called Biokenesis, guys are very excited in that they can change their eye colour in a blink and be scary like they in a trance.... I guess from that point of view as a laymnan you can understand some of the feelings they have about magic.