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Inner circle
Yuma, AZ
2290 Posts

Profile of Ed_Millis
I guess from that point of view as a laymnan you can understand some of the feelings they have about magic.

Not really. There's very few people that know how a cell phone, or a microwave, or even their car really works - much less their computer, or RFID, or a compact flourescent light bulb. But we accept that as "technology" instead of "magic".

Yet they watch a simple magic trick (as I did before) and because they don't understand it's workings declare it "witchcraft" and you "evil". Very arrogant and totally lacking in enough humility to simply look at another person and say, "Wow! You're good! I have no idea how you did that."

"Witchcraft" and "magic" in the Bible was about dominating the will of another person, gaining control over them and bending them to your desires. Such as the girl who followed Paul - though she obviously had "powers", she also had masters!

I agree that it's a pretty good compliment to your skills that they don't immediately say "You palmed that card pretty good!" And to your presentation that it caught them up into a world where the impossible might just actually happen.

But a "real witch" spending his time begging for tips in a restaraunt or on a street corner doing card and rope tricks?? Absurd!! To anyone who thinks deeper than their superstitions, of course.

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Special user
Columbus, Ohio
508 Posts

Profile of Bendy
There are people in my own church, who know me and know the life I live and who have attended Bible study groups I've led and been out in public, witnessing with me who, when they see me performing magic, either at an official gig or casually for kids and people who request it; grab their children and run in another direction like I was Jack The Ripper!

I've explained to those who know me, (never in a professional setting like a restaurant), that what I do is NOT the Biblical definition of witchcraft; but actually utilizes the laws of physics that were put into being by God when He created this world. I've managed to turn ONE Pastor around who thought that way and that is because he actually sat and watched my entire show for an AWANA event. He admitted after the fact that he was looking for anything by which he could criticize and tear me down. When he found none, he was convicted and has since been convinced that not only is what I do not even remotely evil; but a successful and legitimate tool in witnessing to the unconverted and for teaching Biblical principals to all ages. I know he's telling the truth because he put his money where his mouth was.

I used to call myself a "Christian Illusionist." I rarely do anymore. I am a magician who is a follower of Christ. I know that those who think it's evil and feel the need to rebuke me or hide their children will not see things for what they are and there will be no convincing them. So I don't try to explain myself anymore. I will not bend what I do and how I communicate it, verbally or otherwise, to attempt to appeal to - or at the very least, not offend - those who embrace an incorrect opinion about the performance art of magic and/or about the magicians who perform it.

Those are the same types of people who have told me over the years that I'm going to Hell for listening to Petra, (a Christian 'rock' band from the 70's and 80's). I've been told, "You can't play the Lord's music with the devil's instruments!" ...By people who go to church Sunday morning and, while the style of music is different, are being ministered to by people playing electric pianos and electric guitars and drum sets and electric bass guitars. They are comfortable in their self-righteous, hypocritical little box and believe their opinions are God's opinions and there is no changing their minds. Maybe I'm cranky now that I've reached "middle age"; but I just don't have the patience or energy to even try to explain myself to those types of people. I'm as polite as I can be when I have to be and I just go back to performing magic to the rest of the world. And if they are, in fact, blood-bought, repentant sinners who have been saved by Grace and end up spending eternity with Christ; won't they be surprised to see me and thousands of others entertaining our brothers and sisters in Heaven with sleight of hand?!
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Inner circle
The Netherlands
5829 Posts

Profile of Vlad_77

THANK YOU for such a SANE post. These people who judge you forget the very words of God, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

Only GOD is our judge; only HIS judgement matters. When I encounter these people, I say to them, "I am working out my salvation with fear and trembling" as indeed we do. I tell them also that I am a sinner and like ALL of us, fall short of the glory of God.

Take heart my brother in Christ: these people are the exception, not the rule of Christianity, East or West. We pray for them as we pray for all children of our loving, MERCIFUL, God.

+In Christ,
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Inner circle
The Beautiful State Of Maine
6927 Posts

Profile of Dougini
On 2010-10-14 05:20, Vlad_77 wrote: we pray for all children of our loving, MERCIFUL, God.

And, may I add, most AWESOME, ASTOUNDING, unbelievably POWERFUL, Most High, God! If one would just read about what is in outer space, the astonishing power of The Black Hole in space, or the distance of the farthest Quasar, And the Super Massive Black Hole powering our galaxy and other galaxies, this is a tiny glimpse of God's creation! Google them. "Black Hole", "Quasar", you'll see!

When praying to God, think about how great, how powerful...and of course loving and merciful. Oh, and patient! Smile

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Inner circle
Posts R US sold me
1347 Posts

Profile of professorwhut
I have found that many of these over the top zealots have a great many skeletons in their closet.
They are hyper religious for a reason.
They are quick to point at others, while masking their own dirty laundry.
After much soul searching about a signature, I decided not to have one.

TG Pop [aka ProfessorWhut]
Joe Marotta
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Special user
Can You Believe I Have
944 Posts

Profile of Joe Marotta
On 2010-10-04 18:30, DekEl wrote: Try sponge bunnies, perhaps?

Sponge bunnies are evil and from the devil. Smile
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Loyal user
206 Posts

Profile of jnrussell
I pastor a small church and prior to coming, always did "magic with a message". I've done it since I was in jr high school.

Once I came here, I started doing children's sermons before I started preaching, often using gospel magic (the adults loved it too!). One couple invited me over to their house to explain why what I was doing was evil. I researched extensively and wrote up a paper addressing their concerns. Unfortunately, to no avail.

I stopped doing the tricks out of respect for their convictions... eventually the couple left, and I'm back doing them again.

BTW, this was the only time in my entire career I've had objections to doing this. Kid gloves, my brother!
John Russell
Mastering Magician
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154 Posts

Profile of Mysterious
This stuff happens all the time!
Give it to God!
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Inner circle
The Southern Wild
1791 Posts

Profile of JohnWells
I'm not certain that we, even in Christian charity, are bound to kow tow to irrational beliefs.
Steve Varro
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Regular user
Nashville TN.
116 Posts

Profile of Steve Varro
It is always hard to be rebuked by another when you know that you are not doing anything wrong. You can receive 100 letters of recommendation, but the one that will pray on your mind is the negative one that thinks you are doing the work of the devil. As was said earlier in this post, you cannot please everyone.

I used to think that I could explain my view and my craft to them and they would understand. Not always!. There are those who have the attitude "Don't confuse me with the facts, I already know what I have chosen to believe". With someone like that you will be wasting your time trying to convince them of anything different. I know I was married to someone like that for 10 years. She was convinced that magic, especially Gospel magic, was a stepping stone into the occult. Eighteen years after our divorce she still feels the same way. Even though she knows how the effects are done.

The best way to deal with someone who writes and rebukes you, is to pray about it, then write them a "Christ-like" response. I suggest holding on to your reply for three days, and then read it again and make any changes you feel should be made before mailing it. In my reply letter I try my best to explain to them what I am doing and why I use illusions to illustrate the Gospel. Then I invite them to attend one of my programs (I have found that most letter writers have not seen my program but are responding to a poster or ad about my program coming to their church or religious organization) and if they still have problems or question after seeing my program I invite them backstage for an opportunity for me to answer their concerns.

In the mean time, take out those 100 letters of recommendation and re-read them... It helps!
STILL In HIS service

Steve Varro

International President of FCM

Owner/Dock Haley Gospel Magic Co.
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New user
Kent, England
27 Posts

Profile of ianhutch
I've just come on to this thread & I think Professorwhut has hit on something very true for many of the hard-liners. Over the 50 years I've been a Christian I've seen many of the most judgemental people come the most horrendous croppers, &, sadly, many have totally lost their faith. They do often have some pretty scary skeletons in their cupboards!

Something struck me recently that our theology & Christian life can be either like a wall or a hedge. Those whose theology is a series of bricks standing on & supporting each other can find it all falling down around them if one or more of their precious bricks (such as post-, pre- or amilennial rapture) proves to be faulty; the 'hedge theology' Christian has their roots deep in Jesus who trims & shapes the hedge through His Holy Spirit's work in their life. Our life in Jesus is a dynamic 'journey' as He moulds & refines us.

We all need to exercise discernment as to what is right & Scriptural, but none of us has the right to judge someone's standing in Christ nor their eternal future—that is what Jesus was saying in Matthew 7.

BTW I also agree with John Wells!
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Inner circle
Chattanooga, TN
1909 Posts

Profile of DWRackley
After an absence of many years I’m working my way back into magic, and I go to church with many of these quick-to-judge people. I’ve been slow to “pick up the wand” because I know their attitudes already.

A few got to see what can happen when “Santa Claus” talks about Jesus. (Even Santa Claus is a problem for some of them!) In a church setting, my ultimate goal is always an “altar call”, and some of the “die-hards” were seriously moved. God’s given me a gift of creating vivid word-pictures, and I’ve only recently learned how to put it into use. This year was a test; next year Santa’s going full steam!

But Santa only lasts a few months, and my intent is to move back into full-time magic. Because of those prevailing attitudes, I elected to place a “notice” on FaceBook

where the vast majority of them would be able to read it. (To parallel the business world, this might be called “due diligence”.) It’s worded as carefully (but directly) as I know how, highlighted by a “statement of Faith”, because I know many of them will react simply out of concern for my well-being.

Many years ago, I was sitting in a Taco Bell with some friends and they asked me to show them some magic. I’d already done a three card monte, and was about to show them “Out to Lunch”, when a couple guys from another table came over to watch. I had one of them to initial the card and so forth. When I turned over the card, they both jumped back, and one of them shouted “Oh man! You’re in league with the devil!” They were very agitated, and left the restaurant immediately.

At the time, I thought it was funny. I don’t think so now, because I understand how powerful a belief system can be, even an incorrect one. I have been stupid in the past, and I’m probably not completely done being stupid about some things. That thought helps me cut a lot of slack for those who need it.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank all the above posters for letting me know I’m not the only one.

...what if I could read your mind?

Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist

Donatelli and Company at

also on FaceBook
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14 Posts

Profile of thebeaky
When I first started learning this, I really had struggles of conscience, not because of other people, but because I didn't like the deceit.
I got into the habit of "accidentally" revealing the thumb tip in a way I felt was obviously deliberate. My thought was if they can see the one trick is fake maybe that will help with the rest.
I stopped doing that when people commented on how I messed up one trick but the rest were pretty good. Its true though, even though lots of people can really enjoy it and only a few people don't it is those who we focus on.

I don't worry about the deceit any more, they know it is only fake, but it can be wonderful.
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Profile of thebeaky
I noticed someone said, we people get the wrong idea about what we do, but of course it doesn't help that we don't tell them. (I'm not saying that we should).
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