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dennper Loyal user 242 Posts |
My Review -
First off, yes there are some spelling issues that could be proofed. But that is nit picking IMHO. The content gives a background on Cayce and the technique he used in his readings. While this information is not 'original' (it is historical fact), it is relevant and needs to be included as a preface to the meat of this manuscript. The actual technique described in the manuscript is valid. Having studied lucid dreams, meditations, and variations of 'mindfullness', I understand how this works. I don't know that anyone who wanted to try this would need much more instruction than what is provided here to get started, as techniques such as this are all very similar and simple, it's just that most folks will never have the patience to make use of them. That being said, it seems to me that whether or not the reader actually achieves the results described purely through the use of the technique is probably secondary to the point. What the manuscript focuses on is a highly effective, yet apparently neglected, technique that can be used to give a powerful reading. From that point of view, the manuscript is mainly a marketing idea and that is what the reader is buying. This is no different than purchasing a unique oracle system from another reader; you are buying a trade secret. This work will be useful to the serious (probably professional) reader/psychic and likely not hold much for the simply curious. Those that use it have the potential to make a reputation out of it, and those thankfully will be few and far between, as there is not room for a lot of people doing this (or doing it poorly); and Heaven forbid it became a 'fad'. All in all, I believe this is a valid and useful piece of instruction for the right person. It likely will not be of much use to most, but to the right few it will be gold. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Extract of what I "got" first time I tried out this method...i recorded what I said on my phone...as for the chakra thing, I actually used the first few lines from an e.e. cummings poem instead...i did this two weeks or so ago...
"a long black elk head with massive elongated horns, all as a silhouette... rich autumn levels on the floor and in the foreground - almost like a macro shot of an acorn...colours were bright and vivid reds, greens and browns and a very calming sky also, I kept getting an owl's eye (not a euphamism for anything)and the turning of a barn owl's head towards me june 24th" I am a designer by trade, and monday I had the request for a small image that had a solitary acorn and the text was in vivid reds and softer browns...i did laugh at the silliness of it, and no I wouldnt use that in a reading... as I said, my usage of this technique will be something else, or rather a deviation from readings that I am developing... and again, I really love the whole concept of it and the thinking behind it all...
I've asked to be banned
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
And I love the idea behind it. I think it's a fabulous idea, and one that is highly viable...If it's explained well. It is frustrating to buy a product by a professional purporting to teach a professional quality method and to find myself saying, "well, that's not right. So-and-so, a genuine mystic writing about their own experiences, would disagree with that. This could be so much better. It's a pity that people who might actually be able to use these techniques won't get the most out of them because they're wasting $45 on this, when $20 at Barnes and Nobles would get them a whole lot more."
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
Denper, it's not a trade secret. This stuff is freely available in the writing that Bill is recycling. Whethor or not the reader is able to use the method is secondary because it's a marketing technique? Really?
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dennper Loyal user 242 Posts |
"Whethor or not the reader is able to use the method is secondary because it's a marketing technique?"
John, I said "whether or not the reader actually achieves the results described PURELY through the use of the technique is secondary", I did not say the method was secondary. And yes, the discussion of purchasing any type of oracle system is also a discussion of marketing if you are in the business. As far as the reference to 'trade secret', I was commenting that this is indeed presented in that manner, such as the difference between Websters 'trade' books vs. his Llewellyn books. As to whether or not it's all original I did not comment on. You asked for someone to give a review without entering into the back and forth that was going on so I did so in good faith. I wasn't expecting to immediately have to defend myself. It is my singular opinion and I did not judge or comment on anyone else's post. You are free to take my opinions with a grain of salt as I have nothing to gain here either way, but it would be nice if the discussion was constructive and well mannered. |
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
I would assume that the method is the thing whereby the reader achieves the results. If the results are secondary, one can infer that the way of achieving them is also. Perhaps I'm making a fallacy of composition.
As to the "trade secret" usage, I follow you. I understood you to mean the sense of, say, the recipe for coke as a trade secret. That being said, I would posit that there is a substantive distinction between buying another reader's oracle technique and buying what merely purports to be the method used by a famous reader. Scott Grossberg's Masks of Tarot is an excellent example. By purchasing his trade publication, one receives instruction in a unique system, developed and used successfully by the author, and the rights to market yourself with that system which is available in a form for the general public. In the case of the Cayce Technique, we have a method that Bill Montana did not develop himself, and was not the method used by Edgar Cayce. Whatever marketing value one might receive from conjuring with the Cayce mystique, one need not buy Bill's manuscript to do so. I suppose I am a bit surprised that you would not expect me to challenge your opinion. I disagree, and I have explained some of my reasions for doing so. That's not personal, nor have I been unmannerly. If my interaction with you has been less than cordial (and that does not mean effusively "friendly"), do let me know. |
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David Numen Inner circle 2071 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-10-28 12:00, dennper wrote: I disagree with the "valid" part because in my experience it doesn't work as stated. Also, given the exclusivity and price of the manuscript who else but the "right person" ripe for having some use for the technique is likely to want to purchase it? |
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dennper Loyal user 242 Posts |
John,
Thank you for that. I understand your position and don't mind the debate. Obviously with any piece there are folks who like it and folks who don't, at least you speak your mind. There have been so many things hyped on this forum that I have purchased over the years and felt were so not worth it, but I usually don't say anything because of the flame wars that surely ensue from the fanboys. Enjoy the day! |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
@dennper and John, it is sad that you both have to concern yourselves with comments attacking your honest reviews. Reviews after all are opinions.
dennper, just consider how many people bought some of these hyped items that you have found not worth the price. Think of how many of those you might have helped to make an honest decision to buy if you had reviewed a product honestly. Remember Magicians helping magicians or in this case mentalists helping mentalists. John and David I applaud your honesty.
Magic is a vanishing art.
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dennper Loyal user 242 Posts |
Excellent advice, Edh.
Thanks |
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
Edh, I appreciate the response.
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EricDraven Inner circle 1257 Posts |
For me Bills best work is still "The Bridge", an absolute masterpiece, but I can definitely say that the "Mirror" is a truly remarkable piece which for me is more some kind of a mentalism/occult fundament. Bill, in my opinion, sometimes offers work which is not the kind of "i give you all with 100% patter included so you can go outside and all become clones"...sometimes he "just" offers a really interesting look at gems from the past which have to receive the final polish from the new owner...and I personally love that approach...after I invested time into this I got incredible results!
Believe me...nothing is trivial...
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
Of course, for about a third of the cost, you could buy Richard Webster's book on Astral Travel, which is, I suspect, where Bill got most of his info, and actually be able to do what you are trying to do.
Tell me the truth, you defenders and champions of this text, have you actually given any readings whatsoever by this method, using only what Bill Montana gives you in the manuscript? Do you actually have legitimate grounds for your assessment? |
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
I'm gonna be real ticked if this thing doesn't work or help.
John- in the interest of education, can you list the other references, besides Webster, for us? Those interested in this would like to collect all the info we can. Thanks.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
I'd suggest starting with the Flying Rolls from the Golden Dawn. These develop visualizationm skills. While trance reading is not active visualization (as the tattva vision is), the practice prepares you for passive visualization. Troll the Webster text. The sources he mentions are frequently in the public domain. Paul Foster Case, the early stuff, deals extensively with the theoretical background.
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ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts |
If you're interested in Bill's work, get Bill's work, unless John decides to just copy and paste his manuscript on here, then you'll have it completely free.
I read John's posts on here and I see what he's trying to get at, but geez ... we are our worse enemies in this business. I liked the manuscript and have successfully used the "method", but I'm not new to this kind of stuff as a meditation and Qigong practitioner and instructor. For most people in magic and mentalism, this manuscript will contain a lot of information they've never heard of before, and if they do what it says, and work with it (because it's not a gimmick you put on or take off), it will work for them, too. My suggestion to you, Bill, is to stop sharing your stuff. Keep it underground, very secret, Illuminati type stuff ... all this "discussion" on the Café about your work, Bill, seriously, it's simply not worth the trouble. Some will like it, some won't, as with everything else, but the way some of us handle what we don't like here in the Café is distasteful, in my opinion. "In a society in which it is a moral offense to be different from your neighbor your only escape is to never let them find out." -Robert A. Heinlein
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
Builders of the Adytem. I started my Tarot on Case, but didn't follow up with any other of his works, other than his small book of insights.. They were about 6 blocks from me in LA, but I never visited. Thank you for the direction.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
Alexandre, I have not exposed anything. If you consider suggesting a better, cheaper source to be objectionable, please elucidate your reasons. I am a reasonable jack@ss.
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
Tom, Case was a man of remarkable insight. His practical grasp of such matters is invaluable. I highly recommend his text on occult meditation.
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
I'm probably old enough now to understand some of what he's talking about. I'd not thought about Paul Foster Case in decades. I dropped him and the whole Golden Dawn area of thought after my first experiments in Magic sorta really worked.
A good reason to visit The Boddhi Tree this weekend. Perhaps, in the spring, I can go off by myself for a month and read a few good books.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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