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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Polly wants a cracker... » » Split dove production-- seriously? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Sam Sandler
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Ok, let me first say I would not call my self a dove worker, although I have produced doves for about 7 years in over 2000 shows. However, recently, I have only been doing non body loads.

As I come back to the dove workings of body loads, I started to look at the split dove.

I have never liked it, and it never fooled me, nor any of my friends I have brought to magic shows.

So, here is the question. For those that do it, HONESTLY, does it really go over well? Does it really fool anyone? And, the whole other side is how violently you mash the doves before the split.

Now, I will say I have no issues with invisible harnesses and quick productions. I am more concerned about this effect looking so bad.

I recently watched countless videos of it, and not one looked good to me.

Where am I wrong? Or, am I?

thanks
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
hugmagic
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Split doves I think do react on the layman. I think some guys go to the well too often but as a rule it does play.

My only problem with it is the invisible harness. It is hard on the birds. Johnny Thompson has never used one on his any of this birds for that reason.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
1906Alpha1906
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In short, the split goes over very well. Laymen gasp when its done, it just depends on how its done and when its done. Try to look at it from a laymen perspective rather than a magicians perspective. *smile* Being in the business for so long, you know what to look for, normal people don't. It all depends on the timing of the split is all.
As for the 'violent' mashing. My doves never touch each other during my split. They don't have to touch each other. I have used different methods of splits also without IH involved. I guess maybe you have seen some pretty bad examples, but for most, the doves are not put against each other as you may think. They really can't be put on each other if you think about it thoroughly.

I like the split, its dynamic and totally takes a regular laymen off guard when it happens - IF done correctly.

Just my 2 cents...but my money isn't worth much anyways! *haha*
Sam Sandler
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I know and knew that some one would point out the magic side verses layman side but still I don't get it:)

and 1906 you are right I am looking at it more like a magician but I just don't get this one

I have watched some of the best in the world do it and does nothing for me

so here is what I am planning
I am going to work on putting it in the show and see for myself what the reactions are. I think this will be the only way for me to really test my thoughts
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
Dave Scribner
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Sam, as mentioned, it's the surprise factor the impresses the lay audience. You'll never impress yourself with it.

For a comparison, if you haven't seen it already, try to watch the Video lecture tape of Victor and Diamond. They do the split with white rabbits. Now that's impressive but again it's the surprise factor.
Where the magic begins
Sam Sandler
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Yes yes I agree the audience does not know what is coming therefore magic works
however at least the videos and live performances I have seen well they just were horrible and even my manager was telling me exactly what he did and ask why he would do that

again I need to play with it myself to get some real world reactions
I don't deny it works I just can not seem to wrap my little brain around it:)
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
jasanchez
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Ill I can say every time I do a show, I always have people asking me how did I split one bird in to two, In my opinion the split dove production is one of the most amazing productions in dove magic, people love it.
Bill Hegbli
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Sam, we have no control over poorly performed magic tricks, do we.

I first saw this performed by Joseph Gabriel on television. It was truely wonderful effect. On that showing there were certain things that happened that sold the effect to a true split of 1 dove to 2.

This has never been in print to my knowledge or has it been on a DVD teaching video that I know of. So every magicians thinks they can do it, and does it poorly. As usual no thought or practice and how it should be performed properly.

I don't know if it is Joseph Grabriel's original thought, but right after that apppearence by him, everyone was talking about it and I even heard magicians at a convention saying that if you do doves you have to perform this effect. Then every dove magician on was doing the effect.

If done properly, there is no discomfort to the doves, you do not 'smash' them together. This is the kind of thoughts that make people perform it incorrectly.

It is truly to bad!
hugmagic
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Johnny Ace Palmer has been doing it closeup for years.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
GrahamFishman
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Its all about timing the split right.

graham
ARNOMAGIE
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A poorly done dove-split looks like another dove appearance, not a split !

Joseph Gabriel dove split is perfect : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnd2vWk8i......embedded (at 2 mn).

Like also the Frewin split with a big knife (and a different technique), the knife enhances the idea of "splitting" the dove. Nice thinking.
aboycemagic
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I have never seen a dove split better ,in my opinion, than Joseph Gabriel's.
Sam Sandler
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Ok first off yes it looked nice and apparently I had not seen Joseph perform this before BUT the camera angle helped make it look that much better in my opinion

not trying to take any thing away from his work but I need to see it straight on to compare it to the others I have seen

I have an idea of how I will do it and have put a lot of thought into this

thanks for the comments and video and I look forward to more insight into this effect.

sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
Dynamike
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Sam, check out the kid's reactions on my promo video when I perform the rabbit/ chinchilla split in 1' 30". http://www.detroitmagician.com//index-4.html
dahih beik
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The dove split is one of the strong effects in dove magic .. that is sure . however there are different methods of doing it some are stronger than the other . for example James dimmer does it beginning side ways witch is fine and compliments with his moves on stage , but the best is Andy amyx method that means facing the audience ..one of the most important thing about it is the second or less standing still moment after acquiring the dove before doing the split . you want it to be as clear as possible I don't like some that just produce the dove while bough dove are flattering ..the effect become as another production and not a split , at one second bought doves should be allined like one note should be taken of the wings ..then do the split . dan birch does the best out there .
Dynamike
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The only production higher than the Split Dove Production to me is the Double Dove Production.
AnthonytheMagic
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Sam,
Just to put my 2 cents in I do a dove split, taught to me by the GREAT ANDY AMYX!!!
If you don't like the way they look then don't do one! Why should we try and talk you into doing it.... that's like card guys trying to talk me into all those flouishes.... not going to happen!
Respectfully,
Anthony
Sam Sandler
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Anthony- I am not tryingot get talked into it what I am asking is as I pursure getting backinto steals and body loads I want to do the dove split however I have never liked it w hen I see it.

My goal is to find a way to make it work so I DO like it.

I love the concept just not the presentations.
Oddly enough I actually think I might have Andys video on doves floating around here some where I will have to find it and take a look for the split doves

I appreciate all the those that have chimed in and this is what I wanted to hear as I pursue this.

my expectations is to have the new manip act ready shortly after the new year.

first I need to find a difibular - actaully I just need the paddles and the cord with them. Yes its for the routine:)

sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
Michael Trixx
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People certainly do gasp when I do the split, it surely fools them, however, I think this trick is only effective LIVE it's easily seen on video, But the moment you seperate them LIVE is a magic moment for people.
I have studied with Johhnny Thompson And know he dislikes the I.H but if your going to use them (I do) I highly recommend Tony Clark's , I have used many of them and his seems to be the most comfortable on my birds and it pulls from a center point making it not so rough on the doves.
One of the main prob;lems with the Invisible Harness is that the birds claws poke through the fabric of your dove pocket(this can happen with dove bags too) and if you just Yank the bird out you could take nail right off causing major bleeding . so keep the nails trim , (be carfeul trimming them, or put sand paper on the perches and will file down.) Also, I do a little get ready before I produce the bird, Pulling him about two inches forward which will help make sure the nails are not stuck.
Good Luck Out htere Dove guys!
Abrock-Cadabrock ! , Trixx
dahih beik
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palestine
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I scotch tape a piece of aliminated card in the pocket , for the IH production , and I never had a draging proplem .
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