The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Help me learn gambling moves in order please (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Gulyás Imre Miklós
View Profile
Regular user
Budapest, Hungary
185 Posts

Profile of Gulyás Imre Miklós
Hello everyone on the gambling forum!

Since I started visiting the Café, I've always had great fun browsing and reading this particular subforum. This is where the shady and exciting characters dwell.

I have been in magic for a bit more than 1 year, I consider myself a beginner/intermediate level card magician. Probably a skill level of 3 /10.

I really want to become a pro close up/walk around magician. But I can only do cards yet, and everything takes a lot of time to learn. I started learning coins and other stuff, it takes a lot of time.

Whatever, my main point here is I realized not long ago how much time all of this will take to learn and to have a nice all around skill level.
I want to have a gambling card demonstration in my repertoire and my aim is not cheating at real card games (at least for now.)

Because the gambling moves themselves take much effort and time to master, could you please help providing me an ideal order of learning them?
I want to learn the most useful ones first, in other words which have the most utility for a gambling demonstration (faking a higher than actual skill level).

I figured starting with a bottom deal would be ideal because it could be used as demonstrating bottoms also as faking riffle stacking the deck. Also it's good utility for card magic.

I appreciate your help
thanks
I took the Pledge
Yiannis
View Profile
Veteran user
Chicago USA
352 Posts

Profile of Yiannis
A good place to start would be, learning the false deals first. Seconds, Bottoms and maybe later Centers and Greeks (even though there aren't many applications in magic for the later two).

Then, learn the false riffle shuffles such as the Push-through and Strip-out.

After that, learn the table false cuts and the various hops and shifts.

That sound be enough for you, to perform 90% of the gambling routines in the literature.
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6036 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
Depending on your age and knowledge of the subject matter- perhaps start by getting a copy of Expert at the card table by Erdnase. With practice and putting the time in - perhaps advance onto using other techniques.

Good Luck.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Gulyás Imre Miklós
View Profile
Regular user
Budapest, Hungary
185 Posts

Profile of Gulyás Imre Miklós
Thanks for the advice.

I will start reading Expert at the card table.

My table stuff comes from Bill Malone's On the loose DVD set, I learned false cuts (Vernon running false cut, Charlie Miller cut and more)and the Zarrow shuffle (with one card cover) from there.
I don't know how legit these materials are, probably they fit Malone's lightning fast style, I suspect that's why he is using one card only as cover.

But if I want a gambling demonstration I am not sure if they would cut it.

edit:

btw I am 21 years old. I am jealous at times, Vernon started as a 6-year-old and the Bucks as 12 or something. I feel old hehe.
I took the Pledge
blackeagle
View Profile
Veteran user
324 Posts

Profile of blackeagle
If your concern about actual cheating in card games, there are only a hand full of moves you would need to know.
MickeyPainless
View Profile
Inner circle
California
6074 Posts

Profile of MickeyPainless
Read his initial post Blackeagle, I think he's pretty clear on what he wants!
tomterm8
View Profile
Regular user
163 Posts

Profile of tomterm8
Expert at the Card Table is good, but given he says he is quite new to this, I think a beginners text book like Royal Road to Card Magic may be better.
The Dowser
View Profile
Special user
Canada
774 Posts

Profile of The Dowser
I agree with tomterm8, especially when it can be acquired so cheaply.
Gulyás Imre Miklós
View Profile
Regular user
Budapest, Hungary
185 Posts

Profile of Gulyás Imre Miklós
I pretty much learnt all the shuffling, and cutting stuff from Royal Road.
I lack at glimpsing though. That could be useful.

What is a hop btw? I heard the term a few places there and there, but I don't know what it is. There are only a few terms I don't know, and the hop is one of them. I guess it's some kind of secret cut, but if it was then it would be called a shift, ain't it.
I took the Pledge
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6036 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
What I learned on the hop - it is an action sort of like the shift to shift the cut. However it only shifts part of the cut. Say the aces are on top of the deck and the deck is cut - when the performer (note I use the word performer) does the hop - he sort of hop's the four aces back to the top as the cut is completed.

Harry Lorayne has a neat way to use the hop in one or two of his magic routines as I remember - and Larry Jennings had a great routine where I think that he produced all four aces - with a hop.

Here is a few suggestions of books - on the subject of doing card cheating demonstrations. For technique I have found these books quite useful. Expert at the card table (Revelations) - The Card magic of LePaul - Marlo's Seconds centers and bottoms - Deck deception - Lets see the deck - off the top - Jack Merlin’s book and a pack of cards - Harry Lorayne - close up card magic.

Books like these are must reading. Now a few books with stacked deck routines Cause for applause - Glenn Haywood's use of the Nicola deck and deck switch.

Advanced work and book suggestions in relation to punch work - Marlo in spades, Phantom of the card table and the Punch Letters.

I found that in my own learning on this subject that the information is sort of like collecting bits and pieces and then stringing what I like and can do well into a routine that covers part of the subject matter.

Now a few more suggestions on presentation. Jack Pyle who was known as the punch deck pro in Chicago. Did gambling expo as part of his act. His routine was to just re-deal the same hand over and over again - as a running gag. He dealt it to himself and to his helpers (the spectators) as his partners.

Then he close with a bridge deal.

(There are a few good routines using a set up deck in the old Rufus Steele books and a very good gambling routine in the book Marlo in spades using the faro shuffle to deal - if I remember right - poker - blackjack - rummy etc) these are well worth learning and playing around with as they can inspire more ideas.

There is more - perhaps later.

Just a few thoughts and opinion.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6036 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
If I may add - and you may know this already - since you mentioned the bottom deal perhaps a good routine to go with the bottom deal might be the Lorayne Poker deal out of the classic book - Close up card magic.

I hope this helps.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Gulyás Imre Miklós
View Profile
Regular user
Budapest, Hungary
185 Posts

Profile of Gulyás Imre Miklós
Thanks a lot.

Close up card magic is something that is recommended by many but I haven't read yet.
I will definitely read it in the near future.
I took the Pledge
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6036 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
Here are a few links that might help you along the way - about "working" or doing an act that is part gambling expo/poker deals.

Glenn Haywood and a few others that I have known used a stacked deck. There is nothing wrong with that - because the performer is doing a show. At one time Jack Pyle put together an act that he invested quit a bit into the props - like holdouts and a special table. The act did not get booked because it was to much (teaching) and technical methods of cheating - and not enough entertainment.

In my opinion in booking an act that has a gambling card shark theme - it should be as entertaining as any other kind of themed magic act, mental act ect. Jack Pyle later did an act that was of card magic and poker and bridge deals and this act was very successful.

So in my opinion whatever is in the act - even if the performer uses magic to make the gambling card shark stuff look even stronger - Like Jay Ose did by using a double lift and then saying it was a second deal in slow motion - that in my opinion is OK because the result that a performer is after is that the act should be entertaining.

I suggest a copy of Jack Merlin And a pack of cards. Read how he demonstrated the second and bottom deal for an audience. One of the best things about the book is that Jack Merlin gave advice on how he "presented" the act to an audience.

Here are a few links that might help...

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......m=188&59

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......m=188&53

These last two are for the secret sessions forum - everyone has to have 50 posts to get in.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=37&2

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=37&3

Good luck.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
D.K.
View Profile
New user
12 Posts

Profile of D.K.
If you are just now getting into the gambling related slights I would suggest "Fast Company" by Damian Nieman. The first DVD has the "tools of the trade" and the second one has some nice routines that you could do. Just my 2 cents Smile

P.S. I believe he also covers the hop there.
MickeyPainless
View Profile
Inner circle
California
6074 Posts

Profile of MickeyPainless
Good suggestion DK! Fast Company is still one of my all time favorite DVD sets!
Gulyás Imre Miklós
View Profile
Regular user
Budapest, Hungary
185 Posts

Profile of Gulyás Imre Miklós
Thanks for all the advice
I took the Pledge
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6036 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
Quote:
On 2010-10-25 16:02, Gulyás Imre Miklós wrote:
Thanks for all the advice

My pleasure - Good Luck
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Gulyás Imre Miklós
View Profile
Regular user
Budapest, Hungary
185 Posts

Profile of Gulyás Imre Miklós
Ok guys. I started learning bottoms and seconds. Is it important to use brand new decks?
I took the Pledge
Mel Toyer
View Profile
Loyal user
Luton, England
216 Posts

Profile of Mel Toyer
Its not important to use a brand new deck. In fact I would say its definitely better to practise with an older deck. Once you've mastered the moves, get hold of some Darwin Ortiz books. For gambling demos, you cant go far wrong.

Good Luck.
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6036 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
Quote:
On 2010-10-27 05:36, Gulyás Imre Miklós wrote:
Ok guys. I started learning bottoms and seconds. Is it important to use brand new decks?

Here are a few tips that were helpful to me when I started to work on bottom's and seconds. Although you may know them already.

The first thing is to get the grip down. My Dad's choice was the Erdnase grip because he could use the same grip to deal seconds and bottoms. There are other grips - straddle, master they all have their good points.

The grip and building strength in the left hand and left fingers (or right hand if the student is left handed) is what keeps the cards in control for dealing. The next thing is the timing and the take. Also practice sailing the cards across the table while dealing and not just dealing the cards into piles.

Just a few thoughts and opinion - good luck.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Help me learn gambling moves in order please (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL