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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Here is a very interesting lecture from TED.com about how the brain is wired to create illusions. I am very interested in the applications of psychology to magic and also how psychology can learn things from magicians about perception as well.
Look for subtleties that can be manipulated. Much more powerful than any simple contraption or fancy finger flinging. http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/al_sec......red.html
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Why do folks in magic act as if things that folks in the research fields take as known phenomena and either try to make ebooks out of them as tricks or announce the findings as if they were about to be published in the journals?
Yup, very interesting: # Apr 15 2007: Al Seckel will mess up your head, and you will enjoy every moment of it! He is the consumate TEDster! # Apr 17 2007: How very easily our brain is tricked.. and it was kinda news in the summer of 2007.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Who ever said that? I just said it was interesting. And these things have been published in journals. I think I read an article on this theme in Nature in 2008.
I picked this video because it presents these ideas in an entertaining way. I got this link from one of my professors, and I found it entertaining and interesting. Never said it was new, just said it was fun.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
Jacques Loyal user North 206 Posts |
It is interesting and an important part of researches in cognitive science and experimental psychology. In fact visual illusions are at the very basis of the development of analytic tools and experimentations in the study of perception. Joseph Jastrow used optical illusions and stereoscopic photographs in his study of visual perception around 1898 and Alfred Binet, in "La psychologie de la prestidigitation" (1894) asked several magicians (Méliès and Raynaly among others) to perform sleights of hand to use as example in comparison with text on prestidigitation from Robert-Houdin, Ozanan, Guyot, Decremps and Ponsin.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Yes, Jacques, the distinctions made between the perception of a thing's condition and the nature of a thing's action. Back in the brass age of psychology (1890s - 1930's) - and while important to our history I find it scary to see such things discussed as news.
We interrupt this post to present a threat alert. News from the northern territories has it that scientists there have used rocks to make fire. Rumors are spreading that suggest the most inert and lifeless things are involved in the process. Stay tuned here - more to follow.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
So... because a point is old then it's invalid?
So I guess we shouldn't ever discuss the CP then. Nothing new to report there. In fact, there's really no new principles in magic at all. Only the methods have changed, so why are we here? Maybe we should all just give up... We're anachronisms. Living relics of crap that used to be. Nope. Magic still rocks. Sleights rock. Big illusions sometimes rock. Magic has, and always will, rock. That's why we're here. Most of my research uses principles that B.F. Skinner came up with forever ago. The MMPI was developed in 1939 and the latest version is from 2003. Still yields valid results. How about Personality theory? The NEO-PI-R has been around since '92, and the original is from the 70's. Still widely used. So what? I wanted to share something that I thought was cool and fun and has applications to magic. Again, never claimed it was new, just that it was good. And it still is.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Rumors continue to come down from the north that this man-made fire can be transported by specially trained people. More news as it comes in.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jacques Loyal user North 206 Posts |
Have you ever tried to make fire using rocks? I did, it's difficult and frustrating. You need to know the material (rocks and tinder). you need the right angle, movement, air conditions. You need to be quick and precise. Most people today wouldn't be able to make fire with rocks. It's a lost art. This knowledge has to be transmited and practiced. And by the way, making fire with friction (wood) is easier but still difficult and also need knowledge.
I've been surprised on several occasions that many educated persons, scientists, trust their perceptions without any skepticism. For some, it is news. |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Agreed Jaques. And magic tends to attract, harbor and condone the willful ignorance of its majority. It's as if someone tells folks on the way in that there's no need to read the old books if there's new stuff to be bought. And there's always the joy in finding something "cool" that's relatively new ... blah blah blah.
if the gang showed some interest in the actual research rather than the watered down findings as presented by showmen who themselves are far from doing current research .... things could be much better. Just noticeably different, jon
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
And what if those "showmen" lead these ignorant heathens to seek out the research behind it?
Let's face it, most of the things about perceptual illusion have been written about by magicians since Robert-Houdin. There's plenty in Tarbell. What the research does for me is get me to see more in the stuff that's already there. The more I learn about these sorts of things, the better I understand the "old books." Yes, the research is out there for anyone who wants to learn more. This entertaining video would serve merely as an introduction for those who want to seek out more. Not sure where the cynicism comes from. You sure are making a lot of incorrect assumptions about my motivations, and experience.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Haethens? Are you per chance referring to those who walked into a magic shop, bought some product and after finding the Café wandered out of the beginner's section before having gotten familiar with the basics and having read the basic texts - you know like Robert-Houdin's Secrets of Conjuring and Magic, The Mark Wilson Course, The Tarbell Course... Sachs Sleight of hand, Our Magic...
You're right - there is plenty in Tarbell. Getting back to the video from TED: Any new findings? Any direct application of the principles used (that you wish to discuss) as folks here could apply to their magic? No idea why the term "cynicism" comes up though it was consonant with the accusations of mind reading the absurd familiarity with a stranger that reads like some fear or paranoia. There are other places to get help with those things. Magicians are not supposed to help other magicians with that stuff here. Darn, fooled by misdirection - I was hoping that link was going to be a RickRoll. BTW don't take this directly - personally - we have folks in the literature rediscovering Freud's findings and posting online: http://bigthink.com/idea_feed_items/2734 As Jacques suggested - open those old books and post some questions - and remember that most speakers are out there to entertain so their descriptions of theory/process/experimental design etc might leave much to be desired.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
Knowing how to make fire allows you to stay warm and cook food.
Knowing what fire IS however opens the door to chemistry and a million other things. I see no threat in scientific analysis of why the things we do work. In fact, its has the potential not only to make us better at what we do but to open the doors to whole other areas we've never even thought of.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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Simon Bakker Special user the Netherlands 587 Posts |
@ Critter,
Mmm, I just stumbled on this thread. I must say I really don't get some of the replies here.... "Cynical" comes to my mind as well. I clearly don't see the need for it. I found this video some time ago as well. And, beside the fact that I was familair with the findings Seckel is presenting, I enjoyed it (heaven forbid). I don't see any harm in you posting the link here. I think it is something magicians will enjoy watching. regards Simon |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
A little more up to date: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/video/......on-video
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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