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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » A tangled web we weave... » » The Underground » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

michaelmystic2003
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Here are my short posting on my thoughts on the so-called "Underground". Check it out, debate, discuss Smile

http://themagicrant.blogspot.com/

Michael
Follow Michael Kras on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/KrasMagic

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MickeyPainless
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The opposite of "underground" is "above ground" not "over ground"!

MMc
BarryFernelius
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Michael,

Yes, some of the members of the so-called Magic Underground are egotistical idiots. (Ego problems are always present when you're dealing with performers.) I'm not part of the underground, and I sometimes find some of these guys to be annoying.

But there are a few good reasons why an underground exists. First, many members of magic clubs are just as egotistical, but with a significant difference: they don't have either social skills or sleight-of-hand chops. In other words, all of the nasty behavior, but none of the talent. (They firmly believe that they're talented, and simply can't see the truth.) Second, there are magic hobbyists who are thieves. They have no problem ripping off material (both sleights and presentations) from working performers' repertoires. The underground exists partly because of trust issues.

Of course, I'm not part of any magic underground. These are just my observations, and anyone is free to agree or disagree with them.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

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Jon Hackett
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I don't like you blog.

Good day gentlemen.

Jon Hackett
It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities and progressive ideas. Doystoyevsky
michaelmystic2003
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Care to elaborate?
Follow Michael Kras on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/KrasMagic

Check out The Kras Change at Vanishing Inc Magic! http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-downloads/ebooks/kras-change/
cardking
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I think its funny how you bash magic forums yet you have over 2000 posts. spending much time on magic forums? You are also using it to advertise your blog.
Piqsirpoq
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Quote:
On 2010-10-27 10:12, Michaelmystic2003 wrote:
Care to elaborate?


What you've essentially said in your three blog posts is that...

1) beginner magicians are ignorant and stupid
2) magic forum users are inexperienced, clueless bookworms and stupid
3) underground magicians are secretive and stupid

Eventhough the blog may be a great venting outlet for you, everyone might not think that your rants are very thought-provoking or insightful.
RS1963
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Michael you seem to think that the "magic underground" is a club that only a few can join. You couldn't be further from the truth if you tried. Yes as with any group you do get the few who think that the world in which they reside revolves around them and everyone else is to serve them. But your statements show a real lack of knowledge on just what the word "Underground" means in magic.
Jay Mahon
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Let's call them like they are shall we?
Beginners ARE ignorant, they don't know, it's what defines them as beginners... Stupid, they are not! They are just new and learning. Don't be such a *$&^.

Michael, as someone who attempted to have his own magic forum your post certainly doesn't impress anyone, how can you criticize the very thing you attempted to create?! You know Michael, that type of ignorant (a word you are now familiar with) viewpoint that all forum users are inexperienced clueless bookworms is probably a testament to your lack of formal education in magic.

How many books do you own?

Have you read any of them?

Underground magicians are just as Barry mentioned, often trying to maintain their secrets or enjoy being surrounded by like minded individuals. I am fortunate enough to be part of that "underground" and it is just a bunch of guys who value their magic and have a passion and talent in common, also social skills as was so eloquently put earlier. Also, they aren't all nasty, just protective of what they have (the group and their material). Much of the underground material is stuff that just hasn't been published yet. It's still in the working phase and people are making it good and working on it to the point that it IS good enough to publish.

A lot stuff circles the underground which really means gets passed from magician to magician before it's published, printed, or video taped for the mass public to consume. It's also where like-minded magicians get together to show new ideas and get feedback.

Nobody wants to hear you complain about your sad status in the magic community and your inability to be socially accepted. Your blog lacks information and instead of contributing or trying to move magic forward it simply attacks topics and groups you either weren't accepted in or don't understand.

Get your **** straight before you bash people like that.

Michael Kras, you are a sad little man, I hope you mature out of this phase in your life, magical and otherwise.
michaelmystic2003
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A lot of The Underground takes themselves, and magic, too seriously. Sure, magic is a serious art, but when the Underground develops a holier-than-thou attitude, it is just annoying. They operate off ego. I should have been more considerate of the fact that yes, the Underground DOES serve a purpose. But the attitude behind it makes it a huge annoyance. Maybe I've just met a few rotten ones who spoil the bunch.
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Check out The Kras Change at Vanishing Inc Magic! http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-downloads/ebooks/kras-change/
vinsmagic
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sleeping with the fishes...
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+
.Not only is he immature he backs MAGICIANS THAT STEAL FROM OTHERS .
AND YOU KNOW WHAT I AM TALKIING ABOUT SO GROW UP
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
michaelmystic2003
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This is hilarious.

Okay.

Vinny just holds a grudge against the fact that I backed up Alan Rorrison on his independently creted effect with a rubber band and folded playing card, which bears MINOR similarity in one phase to an effect that Vinny has put out. I'm sure the fact that I backed out on releasing my Kras Change through him because of disagreements (My standard of quality seemed to be different than his standard) is the icing on the cake.

If you look back at older posts regarding the argument, please notice that I was fair in looking at both sides of the coin. I didn't necessarily "side" with Alan, but I did understand that both were right and wrong to some degree.
Follow Michael Kras on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/KrasMagic

Check out The Kras Change at Vanishing Inc Magic! http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-downloads/ebooks/kras-change/
Jay Mahon
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Michael,

Please re-read my post in its entirety again.

It will help...

J
michaelmystic2003
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Quote:
On 2010-10-27 11:11, Jay Mahon wrote:
Let's call them like they are shall we?
Beginners ARE ignorant, they don't know, it's what defines them as beginners... Stupid, they are not! They are just new and learning. Don't be such a *$&^.

Michael, as someone who attempted to have his own magic forum your post certainly doesn't impress anyone, how can you criticize the very thing you attempted to create?! You know Michael, that type of ignorant (a word you are now familiar with) viewpoint that all forum users are inexperienced clueless bookworms is probably a testament to your lack of formal education in magic.

How many books do you own?

Have you read any of them?

Underground magicians are just as Barry mentioned, often trying to maintain their secrets or enjoy being surrounded by like minded individuals. I am fortunate enough to be part of that "underground" and it is just a bunch of guys who value their magic and have a passion and talent in common, also social skills as was so eloquently put earlier. Also, they aren't all nasty, just protective of what they have (the group and their material). Much of the underground material is stuff that just hasn't been published yet. It's still in the working phase and people are making it good and working on it to the point that it IS good enough to publish.

A lot stuff circles the underground which really means gets passed from magician to magician before it's published, printed, or video taped for the mass public to consume. It's also where like-minded magicians get together to show new ideas and get feedback.

Nobody wants to hear you complain about your sad status in the magic community and your inability to be socially accepted. Your blog lacks information and instead of contributing or trying to move magic forward it simply attacks topics and groups you either weren't accepted in or don't understand.

Get your **** straight before you bash people like that.

Michael Kras, you are a sad little man, I hope you mature out of this phase in your life, magical and otherwise.










Wow. Well, I haven't really ever blogged before... But you're right. My postings lack substance. They are just attacks... and you're right that they should be more. In turn I personally sound rude and ignorant. For that, I apologize. I have other rant topics, and I'll put better thinking and reason into my posts in the future. It's not right of me just to bash and not offer my view of an alternative.

Mr. Mahon, I'll apologize to you as you've clearly been upset by this. My goal isn't to upset, it's to offer my personal views on topics in magic and perhaps provoke thought. I see how I've sort of taken it in the wrong direction and I apologize.
Follow Michael Kras on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/KrasMagic

Check out The Kras Change at Vanishing Inc Magic! http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-downloads/ebooks/kras-change/
Bietfriek
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Underground:
People who call themself underground while publishing there move, are not underground anymore (just a fancy name)

Forums:
Nice to share ideas, discuss and debate (in fact we don't need your blog Smile )

Beginners:
Yes I'm a beginner (into magic for about 1,5 year) you were also a beginner not?
I think 'beginners' are frressshhhhh they can see new things, effects and possibilities.

Now I'm going to read and practice again, don't want to spend to much time on forums. I'm like a sponge, I try to suck as much information into my mind.
yust my 2 cents Smile

Ow yeah succes with your blog!
michaelmystic2003
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I see your points. I'm just bashing in my blog posts, not offering anything else. And for that I'm sorry... truly sorry if anyone was offended or upset (which clearly some were) and for approaching these topics in a manner that requires more understanding and less blind ignorance. I hope with future posts I'll be able to show that I can look at these topics in a better, less anger-driven manner.
Follow Michael Kras on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/KrasMagic

Check out The Kras Change at Vanishing Inc Magic! http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-downloads/ebooks/kras-change/
Jay Mahon
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Perhaps 'Rants' are the wrong approach.

How about 'Magic Through My Eyes'

Make it a personal narrative. I think you've made it quite clear that you haven't been accepted into a number of circles. While I feel sorry for you in some ways I would much rather hear about the experience of not being accepted, perhaps your desire to be part of them, and your next attempts at cracking the codes and getting access to these clubs/people.

That seems much more productive, less abrasive, and avoids all the silly attacks and whining.

What do you think Michael?

J
michaelmystic2003
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I think that sounds like a fair approach.

But let me clarify that I don't feel a lack of acceptance... I don't desire to be in the underground. Which, I suppose, makes my posting on it all the sillier.

Thank you very much. And again, I'm sorry. I know what I'm trying to convey, I'm just not doing it right.
Follow Michael Kras on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/KrasMagic

Check out The Kras Change at Vanishing Inc Magic! http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-downloads/ebooks/kras-change/
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