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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Flaming/Burning Bible - is it appropriate? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

jamiedoyle
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Lafayette, IN
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Thought I would peak your interest and get some discussion going.

I have a flaming BIble - Ok, several. A few that are battery operated, several that are the "stick your finger in there and strike the flint wheel" version too.

I remember seeing several Gospel Magicians use it as a kid. My mentor actually had one that was made from a real Bible.

So, as you can guess, I've used a flaming or burning BIble in my programs in the past... I've even sold them at my dealer's table at conferences and my lectures...

But - are they appropriate? Should we as ministers (or Bible presenters or teachers) used a fake book that we allow everyone to assume is a Bible and allow it to catch fire? What about the real Bibles that have been altered and, in effect, destroyed, so it can be used as a Flaming Bible?

I'm not arguing, I'm asking... so... what do you think?

Jamie Doyle
Jamie Doyle

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MagicBus
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Kalamazoo, Michigan
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John de Vries had his own custom made flaming Bible that I saw him use back in 1971. He had a good message with it as well which may be published someplace in a back issue of The Christian Conjurer (all the back issues are online at http://www.fcm.org in the members only library section). I found John's Blok-Kord routine in a 1972 back issue- it's a good one. That's the Gospel routine where a rope passes through a solid wood block and the block has the S-I-N letters and the S-O-N letters on it along with an ear and a heart picture. There is always one of those blocks pretty much every year on the FCM used auction/flea market tables at the annual FCM convention in Indiana. See you there in 2011.
Wes Holly
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Jamie,
As you will probably agree with, it's the presentation, not the prop.

Notwithstanding that, there are people/congregations that really frown on taking liberties with the physical book of the Bible, as they hold it in reverence due to what it contains and is representative of God's word.

So, if in your presentation, you give them the time or opportunity to think "he just set the Bible on fire!", you will be in trouble.

wes holly
Happily Yours,
Wes Holly
www.wesholly.com
Baltimore, MD, USA
jamiedoyle
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Lafayette, IN
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Roger and Wes,
Thanks for your input. Anyone else had experience with this issue?

Be Blessed,
Jamie
Jamie Doyle

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acesover
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Does your book (Bible) have to be a Bible with the actual passages in it? Or do you just need pass it off as a Bible? By that I mean that the covers could convey the impression that it is a Bible but actually contain blank pages or some other book that you just put a Bible cover on.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
jamiedoyle
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Hey acesover,

All the versions of my Burning or Flaming Bibles are just that. Books with black pages or a prop that merely looks like a bible.
Jamie Doyle

jamiedoyle.com
Donald Dunphy
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There are other bible / book themed props, aside from the hot book:

--> Holy Bible Coloring Book

--> Bible Box (production prop)

I use the Holy Bible Coloring Book in some of my gospel shows.

Years ago, I had a hot book that I picked up at a magic auction. It was a generic book. It wasn't a hollowed out book. It was a box built to look like a book.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
ChrisG
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I have used my Burning Bible at my church as well as on Missions Trips in Russia, Mexico, Africa and The Philippines. I have yet to be confronted by anyone accusing me of destroying a Bible.
"Consensus is the negation of Leadership"

M. Thatcher
REV BILL
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I have used my "hot book" burning Bible for 30 yrs. Never has anyone had a problem. Probably because I always let them know at the beginning of the program that everything they see is an illusion.
Specializing in Family Entertainment,Gospel,Comedy and Educational programs for over 30 years.(Order of Merlin)
mralincoln
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As a pastor & gospel magician, I have used the flaming Bible for many years--in church and other venues, as well. I have never had any one complain about my "burning" a "Bible."

In fact, most LOVE the effect.

Now, in terms of destroying a Bible to create a flaming Bible, I couldn't do that; fortunately, as has already been noted, that's not necessary.

I think it is one of the quickest, most attention-getting effects around. In fact, I think, if used properly (presentation), it actually can be used to reinforce/teach about the fact that the Bible is a special book--and it is a powerful book.
Terry Holley
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I don't know what message John DeVries shared, but I use the effect to illustrate Jer. 23:29: "'Is not my word like fire,' declares the LORD...?" I have never had any concern/complaints expressed. I think it is the strength of the illustration/message that negates any complaints.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
jamiedoyle
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UPDATE:

just so you guys know that I'm not against the prop or effect (I mentioned earlier that I own and use several)

I was at a school's chapel a week ago and just received a big envelope of letters from the students. The vast majority said they liked the "Bible with the fire..." and some even drew pictures of me holding a flaming Bible.

Just thought I would add that update to this thread.

Be Blessed,
Jamie
Jamie Doyle

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inaciolino
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You must know your audience. Some people are more tolerant and some don't. If you have a good message I don't see any problem. But that's my opinion, maybe someone else may think differently.
mralincoln
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Thanks for the update, Jamie!

And, Terry, I think you're right! The strength of the illustration is extremely important!
J.G. the magnificent
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Quote:
On 2010-11-15 23:43, mralincoln wrote:
As a pastor & gospel magician, I have used the flaming Bible for many years--in church and other venues, as well. I have never had any one complain about my "burning" a "Bible."

In fact, most LOVE the effect.

Now, in terms of destroying a Bible to create a flaming Bible, I couldn't do that; fortunately, as has already been noted, that's not necessary.

I think it is one of the quickest, most attention-getting effects around. In fact, I think, if used properly (presentation), it actually can be used to reinforce/teach about the fact that the Bible is a special book--and it is a powerful book.

Love it

Quote:
On 2010-11-15 23:48, Terry Holley wrote:
I don't know what message John DeVries shared, but I use the effect to illustrate Jer. 23:29: "'Is not my word like fire,' declares the LORD...?" I have never had any concern/complaints expressed. I think it is the strength of the illustration/message that negates any complaints.

Terry

Love it

Posted: Nov 29, 2010 12:14pm
Like some have said you could have a bible representation not only because no one will know unless they look at it. However also because in my opinion if there are any complains about misusing a real bible you can show a fake one. Yet as said they may complain about the whole idea of a burning bible. As said though it depends on your approach. Plus I think people can usually tell your inentions by the situation at hand. Sounds like no one has ever heard complains and probably because of that reason. It may seem offensive on paper but not in person.

Regarding actual routines though I would say aside from what has been said already. A routine could be done using the previously said and or explaining that no matter how much people try to disprove or ban the Bible it will always be. Explaining that this is because Christ is invinsible. As I side not I would like to mention that I remember being a child around seven or eight at my school/church a magician was there using a flaming bible. I remember the message being something about condemnation to hell. Which was probably not a good message to use especially with the age group and prop. However maybe he managed in a tasteful way because I don't remember being freightened by it. Then again I have always been very rational.
Jeremy Gates
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Quote:
On 2010-11-16 14:18, jamiedoyle wrote:
UPDATE:

just so you guys know that I'm not against the prop or effect (I mentioned earlier that I own and use several)

I was at a school's chapel a week ago and just received a big envelope of letters from the students. The vast majority said they liked the "Bible with the fire..." and some even drew pictures of me holding a flaming Bible.

Just thought I would add that update to this thread.

Be Blessed,
Jamie


If I might jump in here?
I do not have or use said book, but have seen it.
As a magician, I thought it was 'impressive' but each see 'different' things in all sorts of effects. (Magic or not). My thoughts on this consider the thoughts of those who accept that anywhere in the bible, flames or fire speak of, or signify "JUDGEMENT" so why would fire be jumping out of The Bible?
(Real or Not.)
jamiedoyle
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Let me pull from the "Breaking Bread" bible study:

Consider the passages that relate fire to the Word of God, The Holy Spirit, The presence of God (Burning Bush, the Pillar of Fire) Fire is also figuratively used of God’s glory (Dan 7:9), of His holiness (Isa. 33:14), of His protection of His people (2 Kings 6:17; Zec. 2:5), of His jealousy for His sole worship (Deut. 4:24; Heb. 12:29; Ps. 79:5), of His Word in power (Jer. 5:14; Jer. 23:29), of Divine truth (Ps. 39:3; Jer. 20:9; Lk. 12:49), of that which guides men (Isa. 50:10-11), of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:3), of Christ in His glory (Rev 1:14), of the power of love to overcome evil (Rom. 12:20), of trial and suffering (Ps. 66:12; Isa 43:2; 1 Peter 1:7; 1 Peter 4:12), of heaven and its purity and glory (Rev. 15:2; Rev 21:22-23), and of Divine testing for divinity (Rev. 20). Jesus said He came to send fire on the earth and He yearned for it to be kindled. (Luke 12:49)

Just food for thought.

Be Blessed,
Jamie Doyle
Jamie Doyle

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Steve Varro
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Nashville TN.
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We sell a ton of these, and I'm sure several people use them in a variety of ways.
One customer said he uses it to share the memory verse.
He opens the Fire Bible with something like "Let's see what the hot word is from God today." or something to that effect. Others have said they use it when preaching a Fire and Brimstone type message. I have to agree the message is what is most important. That's true with any prop.

Steve Varro
Dock Haley Gospel Magic Co.
STILL In HIS service

Steve Varro

International President of FCM

Owner/Dock Haley Gospel Magic Co.
jamiedoyle
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Lafayette, IN
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Thanks for jumping in on this Steve.

BTW - how did your big Magic "garage sale" go a few weeks ago?

Jamie
Jamie Doyle

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Angio333
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I would definitely not use a real Bible. To destroy a Bible to pull off a trick is showing irreverence to the Word of God. I know it sounds legalistic, but we shouldn’t destroy a Bible to pull off a magic trick.

If it s a prop, then you should be very careful. It would depend on how the trick is handled and the teaching point behind it.
- C
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