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Al Angello
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How many of you use a ring in combination with some fiber optics moves?

On "Fiber Optics Extended" Richard demos some great ring, and rope moves. My rope routine is a combination of "Fiber Optics", and "Full Circle", it gets big applause every show, both Richard, John's routines taught me a lot.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Rotten
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I ordered this a few weeks ago and I am hoping to get it this week. Then I find this thread and I'm still hoping to get it this week.

I have done PN since I was a boy. I stopped doing it years back when many times I grabbed my ropes and I heard a kid say, "Oh I have seen this, the one with the three ropes that stretch." I did Daryl's rope routine for a bit but it was his and I couldn't make it mine.

So I ordered this thinking I will create one rope routine that I can use my whole life and structure my own character and jokes around it. I am very confident that's what I will be able to do after reading Frank's comments. Thanks Frank, I was starting to think I had made a poor purchase.

So I'll give you my two cents on it after I get it and view it all in full. This will be coming from a guy who has been performing for 25+ years and have had plenty of experience with other rope routines. I just lost all passion for them. I want that back.
Yellowcustard
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Just going to put my 2 old English pence worth in.
Around 2007 I started to get in to rope magic. I learnt one or two things from Darlys Fooler Dollars DVDs. And I wanted to learn more. So I got the book enceypidiea of rope magic and looked at many resources. A lot of the stuff I had was in books and it was mainly moves and little tricks rather than routines. I started to link these together with varied success. I then brought Fibre optic extended seeing and learning a routine from start to finish. Its great there is a lot there. I started to shorten it and leave out the bits I don’t like or don’t work for me. I also opted to do it just as a single rope with ring moves. I found after a length routine is done you can hand out the single rope and the ring. With what I learnt from fooler doller you could do and few tricks on demand if people ask this helping to hid the gaff.

I then collected the set of Daryl DVD on rope work. Watching these with all the moves and 3 complete routines started to move things on the DVDs and books helped me to slowly adapt Fibre optics in to the routine I have now.

The patter is important and what Sanders share is pretty basic. So build on it bring in a story.

This is my story and if it weren’t for fibre optics I would have struggled to find a starting point.
Enjoy your magic,

and let others enjoy it as well!
Rotten
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I'm still waiting. I ordered this thing several weeks ago. Then about a week later I got an e-mail saying how they have been out of the country (which I totally get) and that they are sending it out along with a free gift for the wait. I'm still waiting. I hope the gift trick makes it all worth while. I'll have to look and see just when I ordered this now as my impatience is making me want to know.
Al Angello
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Rotten
Didn't I just welcome you at the buskers?
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
magicians
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Quote:
On 2011-01-05 10:00, Tim Hughes wrote:
Sorry, but I like doing the Fiber Optics Extended (without the sliding ends- which unless you are VERY good will look dreadful) and I get a good response from the audience - but I have a spectator to help me on stage, and the audience gets a kick out of their reaction too. Add a little intereaction with the spectator and it seems to entertain the lay public. I also do rope routines from Tarbell, which need a lot more presentation to make them work.

Tim (less experienced than a lot of people here)

Isn't Fiber optics without the sliding ends a standard Sands routine? Maybe with a few jump catches thrown in?
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Rotten
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Yes Al, you did. Thank you.

I had hoped this thing would get here today but alas. No. Guess I'll have to wait till next week.
Al Angello
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Rotten
The DVD does not come with rope. Do you have the right type of rope for this trick?

Ian is correct fiber optics is just George Sands on steroids, but to be honest George Sands had more moves than Richard Sanders could copy on both of his Fiber Optics DVD's. Don't worry most of the Sands moves that Sanders missed Daryl used.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Rotten
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Al, I did think it came with rope due to the wording, "3 rope and 1 rope routine included."

So I have now ordered some Camirand elite rope. I still have my ropes from when I did the Daryl routine but they are red and I want white. They are also older than my son so it's time to get new ones.

I have the practice rope so I'm getting started. I have been enjoying the DVD. Very good footage and so much easier to understand than diagrams. I am tired of hearing Sanders say the word 'actually" but it's a tutorial. Not his normal patter. Teaching is hard to do good and I think he does. I am very happy with this product and am being inspired again with rope. For that alone it was worth it.
Al Angello
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There are over 20 moves that Richard teaches, but in my rope routines I only use 5, or 6 Sanders moves.

IMHO and I'm not trying to get you to spend money that you haven't got the George Sands DVD will teach you similar moves that Fiber Optics doesn't. I have two personal routines that I do that include moves that I learned from about 5 different great rope magicians. You can't go wrong learning from the best, or as jugglers put it "when you learn from the masters you are standing on the shoulders of giants"
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Rotten
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Thanks for the recommendation Al. I have a few other ones on my list as well but I'll put those further down the list now. I have heard rave things from all of my magic friends about George Sands. I am a juggler most of the time but like most jugglers started with magic and have always had a few tricks in my bag. Now I want to learn/create one last rope routine that I can use the rest of my life. Something that fits me. I don't want to grow into or out of it.
Al Angello
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Rotten
I've been an IJA member since 1986, and a former president of the Philadelphia jugglers club. We all believe in "each one teach one".
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Rotten
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Well Al I have enjoyed your posts and now I see why. Now I have some ropes to practice! I'll give a review after I get through it all but it is a lot to get through.
rjthomp
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Fiber optics is really a "rope flurry" : most of the moves are only deceptive if done at a rapid of enough pace to keep the audience off balance. If you can pull of this pace smoothly it does look very magical, and I can assure you that every lay audience I've tried it on has loved it-and been fooled by it.

The pace of the routine is (or was) highly innovative, at least as far as all the rope magic I'm familiar with that came before (and I think I've seen, at least on video, most of the big names). Only a few of the moves are original, but those are the moves that make the fast paced routining work. I think everyone would have liked to see Sanders give credit to his predecessors, however.

It should also be mentioned that Richard is a very effective teacher, making this a much easier dvd to learn from than most.

-Rob
Mitch Winkler
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Quote:
On 2010-11-06 12:23, Sealegs wrote:
The apparent spread of 'Fiber Optics' as a routine has harmed rope magic more than anything else in the history of rope magic.


If the art of magic were so fragile as to be easily damaged by bad performances, it would've died hundreds of years ago. It's fine to feel horrified by bad copycatting, and I share your distaste for it, but come now...harmed rope magic? Really?
Dr_J_Ayala
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When I first saw the Fiber Optics video, I felt I was watching nothing new to me at all. I learned rope magic initially after watching Tabary live in Europe in various countries, but mainly France. After him I got more techniques from Greater Magic, Tarbell books, The Encyclopedia of Rope Tricks, Pavel, Aldo Colombini and the Magic of George Sands.

To me Fiber Optics was, as mentioned on this thread before, a flashier version of the work by Sands. It always seems that when I see Fiber Optics performed, it really is a robotic repetition of moves. There is nothing poetic or smooth about it.

Another effect that suffered this same fate long ago is the Linking Rings. Even today, it is rare to find a performer who performs that effect so smoothly, with such grace and seemingly no effort that it spellbinds (and still fools) even those that know how it is done. This is all due to a lack of practice, presentation and performance skill. Performance skill (the ability to perform anything smoothly and without difficulty, obvious or otherwise) is something that only comes with practice. I have seen a lot of rope magicians that easily fall into that category, taking rope magic right along with them.

Among the truly innovative (original) rope effect creators/performers of today include Ian (I use his rope effects all the time and love them!), Tabary (most of his FISM act were original effects), Colombini (he has put out a lot of original rope effects) and Pavel (who practically re-wrote the book on original rope effects). That is by no means an exhaustive list, but they are the ones that stick out the most.

Now, this is not to say that the DVD or its contents are bad, but just that the effect, as I have seen in performed countless times with as many variations and styles as possible, has not really done/contributed anything useful for/to rope magic overall.
magicians
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Quote:
On 2011-05-27 00:17, Dr_J_Ayala wrote:
When I first saw the Fiber Optics video, I felt I was watching nothing new to me at all. I learned rope magic initially after watching Tabary live in Europe in various countries, but mainly France. After him I got more techniques from Greater Magic, Tarbell books, The Encyclopedia of Rope Tricks, Pavel, Aldo Colombini and the Magic of George Sands.

To me Fiber Optics was, as mentioned on this thread before, a flashier version of the work by Sands. It always seems that when I see Fiber Optics performed, it really is a robotic repetition of moves. There is nothing poetic or smooth about it.

Another effect that suffered this same fate long ago is the Linking Rings. Even today, it is rare to find a performer who performs that effect so smoothly, with such grace and seemingly no effort that it spellbinds (and still fools) even those that know how it is done. This is all due to a lack of practice, presentation and performance skill. Performance skill (the ability to perform anything smoothly and without difficulty, obvious or otherwise) is something that only comes with practice. I have seen a lot of rope magicians that easily fall into that category, taking rope magic right along with them.

Among the truly innovative (original) rope effect creators/performers of today include Ian (I use his rope effects all the time and love them!), Tabary (most of his FISM act were original effects), Colombini (he has put out a lot of original rope effects) and Pavel (who practically re-wrote the book on original rope effects). That is by no means an exhaustive list, but they are the ones that stick out the most.

Now, this is not to say that the DVD or its contents are bad, but just that the effect, as I have seen in performed countless times with as many variations and styles as possible, has not really done/contributed anything useful for/to rope magic overall.

Thank you Dr. for including me on your list. I feel you are right in your assessment of the material. The one thing I found to be upsetting is the incorporation of older works in the aforesaid dvd's. However, the buying public, sadly, has no idea as to the chronology of rope methods. That being said, Sanders is a good teacher, so is Colombini and Daryl. Tabary is exacting in his teaching to the point of overkill, but considering that he assumes that the viewer is a total beginner, he might be right.
Bottom line, if you don't care who did what first, your list will give any rope performer a solid foundation.
Back to the point, the key ingredient in the Sanders effect is the "jump cut" move and the slide and catch. It could be exposure, but the effects make the spectator's mind "blink". The moves are a mind shaker when it happens. Reverse engineering and exposure is only a factor when viewing a recording. The on site performance breaks the monotony of your typical rope effect.
So many rope routines waste time with patter as the misdirection, whereas, some of the Sanders moves (exposure debatable) break the normal thought process.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Dr_J_Ayala
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Anyone that has watched Sanders lecture live or seen his instructions for his Ring On Shoelace will have to agree, he is a great teacher.

I also agree with Ian on the comment about the reverse engineering and exposure being factors in recordings. An example: Aldo Colombini has a routine that he performs with his Rope Puzzle set where as a climax, you invite the spectator to hold the ends only to prove you can still tie a legitimate knot in the rope. You then ask the spectator if they think you can untie it without touching the ends, and the spectator ends up holding the "ends" of the rope and you then untie the knot from the ("middle") piece remaining in your hands.

You basically expose the method by which the entire routine is accomplished by using that ending, and Aldo advises not using it with laypersons in the audience.

I agree with Ian again where the effect breaks the normal logical thinking process with the mechanics involved, but perhaps (and surely) there are better (and/or non-exposure) ways of accomplishing that, as there are with the above Colombini routine?

As far as caring or not caring who did what first, due credit should always be given/acknowleged where possible. Further, we should all care about it, especially where classic effects and the moves/sleights borrowed from them are concerned, because they are classics for a reason.
magicians
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Quote:

As far as caring or not caring who did what first, due credit should always be given acknowledgement. Further, we should all care about it, especially where classic effects and the moves/sleights borrowed from them are concerned, because they are classics for a reason.

Credit where credit is due or blatant theft, has been my main critique of some of the modern "heroes" of magic. I have been shut down by those who really don't care about who did what first. I have been told that I shouldn't chastise the modern buyer for not realizing that certain techniques have been plagiarized.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Dr_J_Ayala
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Quote:
On 2011-05-29 09:58, magicians wrote:
Quote:

As far as caring or not caring who did what first, due credit should always be given acknowledgement. Further, we should all care about it, especially where classic effects and the moves/sleights borrowed from them are concerned, because they are classics for a reason.

Credit where credit is due or blatant theft, has been my main critique of some of the modern "heroes" of magic. I have been shut down by those who really don't care about who did what first. I have been told that I shouldn't chastise the modern buyer for not realizing that certain techniques have been plagiarized.


I see that happen a lot. The one thing I have to point out is that really, the John Q. Public that happens upon the local shop and buys one or two cheap effects to show his friends is not so much the culprit. It is the Joe Schmo that decides to try and create his "own original material," attempting to go above and beyond the one-trick-wonder level, and ends up deciding that everything he does is his own, that is the problem.

That is not to say that every one of them does it, but it happens more than people think. If one publishes/markets an effect, researching the sleights used within, listing originators and/or listing the inspiration for your effect should be part of the package. If it is discovered after the fact that someone has done something before you, find a way to let customers know.

Not giving the performers that create/originate effects, plots or sleights/moves that one uses in their creations is just plain rude and unprofessional. That kind of work deserves no recognition or support. Common courtesy goes a long way; unfortunately these days, much like common sense, it is not so common anymore.
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