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padre rich
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I have been conversing with magai 10 or 15 years my junior about the props we use. They hate color changing , chinese linking rings , pom pom sticks and most traditional props. They're argument and probably a valid one is that they are dated and irrelevant . No one carries a pocket knife anymore, linking rings are boring - wah wah wah.

Am I a dinosaur because I'll keep my Mogar knives and not purchase the color changing thumb drives ? Does the magic really hinge on the relevancy of the prop? Or is magic about performance and passion ?
Just ranting .
The Jurasic Padre
God's grace rocks! It makes a good cups and balls routine look pretty boring in comparison.
Whit Haydn
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This is a very good trend. I hope that it increases. The fewer young magicians doing Linking Rings, Color-Changing Knives, and other classics, the better.

Leave those tricks to those of us who are NOT embarrased to be doing something more than three years old.
Bill Palmer
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The next time one of those little snots is out somewhere, and he needs to cut something with his "relevant prop," remind him that your "Jurassic" color changing knife is actually a useful tool.

Seriously, a lot of people I know carry pocketknives.

If any of us don't know how to make our props meaningful or relevant, then maybe we should take up macrame.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Andrew Zuber
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Who hates color changing? That's one of the most amazing things out there!
It's not the props, it's the presentation. Whit's linking rings routine is great - check out the video online and see how much fun the spectator is having, and she's definitely not old. She's having a ball the whole time, as is the audience. Kyle Eschen did the pom pom sticks on national TV and got a great reaction - and I believe he was 15 or 16 at the time. The routine killed.

I'm with Whit. Let the Youtube kiddos play with their Black Tigers and Ellusionist packages. Look back in five years; I'd be shocked if a mere fraction of them are still performing.

P.S. MacGyver carried a pocket knife. He's the greatest magician of all. I don't think anyone is debating that.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Mr. Muggle
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I think it's more of how you present something. Most everyone will agree with the phrase "Grandpa always had his pocket knife", so IMO if the audience relates to the way you present the effect and/or "prop", you have an opportunity to entertain regardless if the item used is dated or not.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Donnie Buckley
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The folly of youth - I've been there and it is their lack of experience that is talking. They will either grow out of this opinion or quit tinkering with magic. Sooner or later everyone who is serious about this art realizes the value of a time tested prop and routine.
But like Pop said, in the meantime, all the better for me!
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
Donnie Buckley
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Also, I don't think this "new school" accurately descibes these guys. It's more like "no school"...
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
lint
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Quote:
On 2010-11-12 13:07, Bill Palmer wrote:
Seriously, a lot of people I know carry pocketknives.


Don't mess with Texas. I have seen Bill's color changing revolver routine.
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
Tom Fenton
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Youth is wasted on the young.
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cupsandballsmagic
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Very true Tom, very true my friend. It's the transferable skills on the periphery of the classics that make a difference too.
Bill Palmer
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The main consideration is the impact a piece has upon an audience of real people.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Andrew Zuber
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Quote:
On 2010-11-12 15:59, Bill Palmer wrote:
The main consideration is the impact a piece has upon an audience of real people.

This is why I only perform for my stuffed animal collection; I'm a HUGE celebrity amongst Teddy Ruxpin and the Andy and Raggedy Ann crowd.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
pabloinus
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As a spectator of magic more than a performer, I think it is not the prop but the method/presentattion that gets "old".
I believe the first time I saw linking rings was when I was 10, I am on my 50's now, back then it was ok, but the part where the magician was building a house, a swan was not too long and not to impresived back then and it is realy bored today, however Whit Haydn rings presentation, same props totally different moment, its enjoyable and lots of fun.t.

Knives is a little bit different, the item is not been used as they used too, therefore the setting to use them can not be any place or any audience. Again Haydn presentation in his character could make sense, and even for young audiences, at the end is a paddle trick with a different object. If today I try to do the knives, people will be more interested in the knives that in the trick because of the knives been a rare item. Outside of the US is even rare to find places to buy pocket knives like you have in America (Home depot sells them)

The Pom Pom is also a prop that in its normal looks (chinese color and design) was for a moment in time when things coming from the East were mysterious, however the Regal/Biro prop, which is the same principle but with pipes is more engaging and easier to understand for a younger audience.

I think what need to be moderm is the presentation, staging, etc rather than the props, Copperfield, Penn and Teller they do very old tricks (sawing an assistant in half, etc) but the presentation make those props moderm and people of different ages enjoy them.

Just my thought
Donal Chayce
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Quote:
On 2010-11-12 12:58, Whit Haydn wrote:
This is a very good trend. I hope that it increases. The fewer young magicians doing Linking Rings, Color-Changing Knives, and other classics, the better.


Bravo!
Pete Biro
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They probably don't like polite language either.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
djkuttdecks
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Ok, I'm going to tap dance on the other side of the line a little bit here. Yes, the presentation is absolutely key in any performance, but I would say that there should be some credence given to the phasing out of certain effects or the modernization of those props used.

Of course, I don't think color changing knives are irrelevant, however we do live in a different time. I dare say you will stand a better chance at the color changing thumb drive if your showing a trick at school (as many younger kids do) and heaven help you if you attempt to perform it on an airplane. Sometimes it's just a change in life in general, not a poor attitude.

Let me give two examples; image projection, at one time, was considered magic. People fainted as they saw images float across stage as a player piano tinkered away with not player in the seat! To even attempt the exact same procedure today would not only be laughable but would most certainly get you the "gong". However, this is almost to obvious of an answer. So lets consider the Ball and Vase, yes it has its place in our history and sure it belongs in every starter set you find in the dollar store, I'll even say that many have performed excellent routines that have baffled a modern audience, but is it relevant? The tricks origin is based around the egg holder, a once everyday item that in today's age has been long forgotten. Similar can be said for the dove pan, and the coffee canisters. These props were originally chosen because they made sense and were familiar ages ago. I see no reason updating the prop would lend speculation towards childish attitude.

There are classic effects that don't make much sense at all, except that it is a magic prop (to which a gimmick is instantly speculated by a lay person). The change bag, die box, pom pom sticks and even the linking rings come to mind. I think they all have their place but are not for everyone (and that's ok).

Personally I love the cups and balls because it looks like classic magic and they assume the cups are gimmicked when they are not, but many choose to do the same routine with only a coffee cup for a more familiar feel. Do I think that person is wrong? No. Do they think I am wrong? I would hope not. I would even dare say that the cups I use would be considered much less relevant to a lay person than using their own coffee cup, but that's a risk I'm willing to take.

Imagine, if "kids" didn't push things forward and shortly after become adults, where would we be? Better yet, where would you be? I can say one thing for certain, we wouldn't have the technology to be able to discuss this online in this forum. At the same time the qwerty keyboard layout hasn't changed since the first type writers for a reason, it works.

-Lee

http://www.outofsleight.com
Father Photius
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Definition: Latest new effect - Old trick from Tarbells with a new marketing scheme. They want the latest and greatest, and often are getting something old, just repackaged. Those old tricks are old because they have been around for a long time. Longevity says alot.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
Andrew Zuber
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I must say, there is already so much material in existence it's overwhelming. I just bought Dai Vernon's Book of Magic and am having a wonderful time reading through it.

That said, I think moving the art of magic forward is a wonderful thing; I know I'm always in search of new ways to do things. I love guys like Danny Cole and Jason Latimer who push the boundaries of what we know and do; that's how the art advances. However, I also think it's important to understand the classics. When I was in film school, our first class involved us shooting and editing on actual film. Most of us owned or had access to digital equipment, and in subsequent classes we used that technology because it's relevant in the industry today. What's important is that we walked away with a thorough understanding and appreciation of not just how to make a film, but how the process had advanced and where its roots were.

I believe anyone that's serious about the art of magic should (and should WANT) to study the history and the classics of magic. THEN let them butcher Ace productions on Youtube to the beat of Linkin Park. Smile
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
funsway
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Walmart no longer carries any rope not made of synthetics -- no cotten, jute, hempt, sissel - nada. I guess that means that we have to abandon rope magic since young people won't know what it is -- and if you handed it out they would think it is a gimmicked prop.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Father Photius
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Well put, funsway.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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