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kosmoshiva Loyal user Canada 255 Posts |
Some youngsters aren't familiar with razor-blades, having only seen disposable bic razors ... what's the replacement? X-acto blades? They don't have holes in them. Back to the needles?
Don't forget to breathe.
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Swann101 Special user 558 Posts |
I agree with you Lee and Andrew, Its is very important to study the history, if we don't know where we come from we won't know where we are going to, and it also gives you greater respect for the art. That being said, trends do change and we should not be left behind, Copperfield is a good example of changing with the time. Lastly, I also feel that the type of audience and age group of your audience will also determine a lot of the effects you are going to do.
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts |
In 2000, D robbins (ez magic) wanted two booklets. 110 tricks with a Svengali, and 110 tricks with a stripper deck. He owned the rights to Al Stevens 75 tricks versions.
My job was to come up with the new booklet. I used about 60 of Stevens effects and came up with 50 original additional. I took the best of the Stevens book but turned old school into new school. References to "records" were reworked with DVD's or Cd's, telephone tricks went to Cell phones (ipods were not there yet), fedora hats were changed to ball caps, Odd phraseology was modernized etc. Bottom line, it wasn't too hard to interpolate to the next media and adapt. It was old school in new school clothing. Oh, and about the rope availability. Cotton rope looks like the Walmart synthetic, so those who wish to do magic will try and die if they use nylon. This will make our rope effects more of a mystery.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Re: The egg vase, ball vase, globe box -- just about the time you are absolutely convinced that these things have no place in a modern show, you see ads for egg cups on eBay. Or you see listings for ostrich eggs and holders.
Ed Solomon painted the ping pong ball in one of the Khin vases to look like an eye. He did a bizarre routine around it called "The Eye of Al Hazred." He made it relevant.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Tom Fenton Inner circle Leeds, UK (but I'm Scottish) 1477 Posts |
Maybe "The Classics" are called that for a reason.
They give enough room for a performer to use them to showcase his or her personality. That's what I think anyway.
"But there isn't a door"
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motown Inner circle Atlanta by way of Detroit 6127 Posts |
I'm not one of the young kids and I have no problem with the classics. But, with that said, I don't want to be one of these people who puts on blinders because they're afraid of something new. Art advances because the innovators want to push the boundaries. Let's face it, things can and do become dated. When that happens you need to move in a direction that's relevent to your audience.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain |
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Tom Fenton Inner circle Leeds, UK (but I'm Scottish) 1477 Posts |
I agree about moving on to stay relevant and to try to advance magic in some way.
I find that blinkers are not used only by people who are afraid of something new, they are also used by folks who try too hard to be trendy and new.
"But there isn't a door"
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-14 00:53, motown wrote: The art comes from the presentation, not the trick -- the ability to awaken the sense of magic or appreciation of magic already there in the audience. So, what is relevant to an audience? I question that any young person (or old) with scant education in psychology, sociology, history, speech, theater, etc -- and limited live interpersonal skills can judge or even guess what is relevent. The fact that some people might be entertained by a performance, and even pay to see it does not make it art. Working with some of the classic effects and "making it yours" with innovative patter, smooth routining and an engaging manner can reach ALL spectators with the memory being of Magic rather than "a good time." The only thing I see advanced by most "new school" performance is ego -- little art in that! but, maybe it is time to quit considering that magic is an art form - sad, but certainly new school.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Tom Fenton Inner circle Leeds, UK (but I'm Scottish) 1477 Posts |
Personally, I don't think that magic is an art form.
There is art in magic but not every performer makes it "art".
"But there isn't a door"
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts |
Two sided coin. Magic is an art form that has been parodied by amateurs. Like people who dress as mimes and think they are Marseil Marseau.
I rather think of magic as repertory theater. Magicians doing their rendition of classics (and non classics). Like any theater, you have professional theater and community theater. Anyone can get a script, but most only emulate a performance they have seen. Or, merely read the part. Others can get it right. I think its is time for magicians to consider our art in this fashion. As a magical performer and inventor, I consider my part as the playwright who comes up with the lines and moves and directs the performer. One cannot always control the interpretation of one's work. ---Ian
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
One of the biggest problems with magicians is that they think they can do ALL of it. They don't think of magic as theatre. They think of magic as tricks. Very few magicians have ever used the services of a director, a producer, a lighting technician, a sound technician, a music arranger, a choreographer or a scriptwriter. Some of us can do a lot of it. But most of us can't direct ourselves.
A good director can make the difference between a bumbling fumble through a classic and a skilled performance of the same thing.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Mobius303 Inner circle Lakewood, Ohio 1309 Posts |
Perhaps it has more to do with how the new guys are learning rather than if it is art or not.
I used to work in a magic shop and learned most of my material from books. I was happy to have video come along but only as an adjunct to my learning so that I could see timing and technique as it was intended, Then I would adjust my performance to me based on what I learned. Now these new school guys start with DVD's because they are easier to learn from or so I have been told. They miss a number of rather big points that you cannot get just by watching things. I think that is what you guys are seeing in a lot of cases. I have heard later, when you talk with some of these guys, that they wished they liked or could learn from books. Magic is an art form, of that I have no doubt. Watch Vernon on film, watch David Copperfield, watch Jeff McBride if you have any doubt. Whit Hayden talks about this subject very eloquently in the forward to Designing Miracles. I think he really hits this subject right square in-between the eyes. By learning only the performance of a person's material, such as on video, a performer learns to copy what works but not why or how it works. Darwin in his part of the introduction also talks about this subject quite well. You guys should check it out. How can we master our craft as opposed to just perform a series of tricks? How do you define what is magic and what is just a trick? I have had these discussions number of times and it has helped me to think more about the effects I want to perform. Does your magic evoke emotions? Does your audience enjoy the show? Enjoy, Mike |
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Tom Fenton Inner circle Leeds, UK (but I'm Scottish) 1477 Posts |
To me, if magic can evoke emotion than it can be considered as Art.
To evoke emotion through a performance of magic is not easy. Meaning has to be given to routines, communication, both verbal and non-verbal, has to take place. For emotion to be experienced by an audience, the performer must connect with them. "Old School" effects and "New School" effects can be supplied with meaning by an Artist. It takes hard work, a lot of thought and practise but the end result will be worth it. That's just my opinion of course. Mike, I agree with you about people who only learn from DVD/video can end up copying the performer who is on the DVD/video. With books you are forced to add your own take on the effect. The "why" is more important than the "what".
"But there isn't a door"
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panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-14 11:14, Bill Palmer wrote: This should be inked into our consciousness. Consider as one example the collaboration between David Mamet and Ricky Jay. Bill, thank you for this too-often ignored advice.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I think the real problem exists not between old school and new school, but between schooled and unschooled.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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djkuttdecks Special user Portland 662 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-15 10:31, Bill Palmer wrote: bingo |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Mega Ditto
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-15 10:31, Bill Palmer wrote: Bill, You sure know how to dance a phrase! How well said!
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
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motown Inner circle Atlanta by way of Detroit 6127 Posts |
Quote: First, Go back and reread what I wrote. Notice that I didn't use the word magic or trick. I was talking in broader terms. What you wrote has little to do with what I said.
On 2010-11-14 05:58, funsway wrote: Secondly, your suggestion that people can't determine what's relevant to them, tells me you have little understanding of consumer behavior and shows a lack of respect for your audience young or old. Go out and get yourself a good maketing book. It'll do you a world of good.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain |
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Tom Fenton Inner circle Leeds, UK (but I'm Scottish) 1477 Posts |
I agree with Motown, advances are made when people try to push back the boundaries.
I think that there should be a reason for that though, not just "because they can." Bill hit it on the head with his comment about schooled and unschooled.
"But there isn't a door"
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