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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts 
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On 2010-11-21 17:04, Dannydoyle wrote: Fair enough, it was more about the fame than the about being rich. Or both together (of course, not too many poor people are famous). But that was the point of Cyberqat's original comment, about those who are "rich AND famous".
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts
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Danny, are you talking about the copy of the Constitution printed on a metal card (that's designed to set off metal detectors?) While it may prove a point, it will probably also get you put on the "always give special attention" list at the airport security line.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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The Bill of Rights yes.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts
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On 2010-11-21 17:04, Dannydoyle wrote: And all this time I thought cops hated magicians! 
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Naw just Chance aparantly.
I just don't like it when things get turned like this on Penn simply because he has some exposure. Yea the cop was a fan so what? He was there as a cop and if Penn had pulled a knife or what not that would have not mattered if the cop liked the show or not. The cop did his job. But 99% of those who claim this special treatment nonsense never did the job so they flap their yap without the slightest clue of what is required. Sounded like the cop was doing his job. Simple as that. I still want to see why he is treated different because he was "rich and famous". That claim still hasn't been backed up and I doubt it ever will. It is not fair to paint Penn like that simply because he has worked hard enough to have some means at his disposal.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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Danny, let me be clear, in no way am I attacking Penn.
But Penn himself said that having the cop as a fan "wasn't hurting". Neither of us were there. Based on what Penn wrote: "First of all, the cop is a BIG P&T fan and that ain't hurting. Second, I get the vibe that he is WAY sick of these federal leather-sniffers. He has that vibe that real cops have toward renta-cops. This is working WAY to my advantage, so I play it." So it's not at all clear that the cop was just "doing his job". Actually, it really sounds as though the cop was taking advantage of his authority to make life difficult for someone (the TSA agent) he looked down upon, and possibly acting as he did to impress one of his idols (if we can trust Penn's opinion when he says that the cop was a "BIG P&T fan"). As Penn wrote, the lawyers he consulted with said "it was really a weird case because no one knows if he [the TSA agent] can be charged with assault and battery while working in that job". So, what was the cop doing exactly? Clearly, he was talking out of / through his hat when this happened: The cop, the voice of sanity says, "What's wrong with you people? You can't just grab a guy's crank without his permission." I tell him that my genitals weren't grabbed and the cop says, "I don't care, you can't do that to people. That's assault and battery in my book." Assault and battery for WHAT? It seems the cop was quite ready and willing to write up a report about a crime that didn't even happen, had Penn not corrected the guy. By all means defend Penn, but don't whitewash the cop's actions. The cop might have been doing his job but he was not doing it properly.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2010-11-21 17:05, Dannydoyle wrote: I would love to read more. The last I heard him directly address it he was commenting off handed about being a libertarian, but now leaning more towards anarcho capitalism, but not much since then.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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On 2010-11-21 21:29, balducci wrote: Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. The cop was going to write up a report, IF something happened. Cops do NOT DECEIDE GUILT OR INNOCENCE! HE writes an unbiased report of what happened. "You can't just grab a guys crank without his permission". Hmmm explain to me where this is overzealous please. Seriously what is WRONG about the sentence? Now bear in mind this was 8 years ago also. Things are quite different. Oh oh oh and the COP HIMSELF IN A PAT DOWN is not allowed to do things like that! They are taught and cautioned AGAINST THAT EXACT THING! Battery is an offensive touching. Just so we are clear, you guys tend to throw about terms you are not familiar with so let me just define those two assault and battery so we are clear. Two separate offenses against the person that when used in one expression may be defined as any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another. Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact. The act consists of a threat of harm accompanied by an apparent, present ability to carry out the threat. Battery is a harmful or offensive touching of another. Are you telling me that the actions taken against Penn did NOT fall within this category? Sorry but you are way out of your depth on this. The cop was right. Assault and battery EASILY could have been written up and let the courts deceide. THAT IS HIS JOB. Don't bandy about words you are not so familiar with. Now it can be argued that "intent" is a big componant of each and it is true. But lets just throw out there that what if the guy who did it was NOT a Penn and Teller fan? Intent? Who is to say, that is what the court is for. IF I am wrong in my definitions please set me straight. I am pretty sure I am right though.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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Danny, be that as it may, the cop was accusing the TSA agent of doing something that the TSA agent did not do. Is that standard operating procedure for cops? At the very least, it certainly does not sound very professional.
Now, on a slightly different note, you just wrote that assault and battery "when used in one expression may be defined as any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another". I would think the cop would be able to figure out that if TSA agents have been doing this day in and day out under various police officer's noses (because no doubt police in the terminal were aware of these pat down inspections), it more than likely wasn't unlawful and as a result was not assault and battery. If it was, why did he never act before? Do cops just stand around when 'assault and battery' is going on and do nothing? By the way, I just reread Penn's blog post. Even AFTER the cop had been corrected by Penn about the TSA agent not grabbing Penn's "crank", the cop made the same accusation a few minutes later: The cop says, "Your guy grabbed his crank. That ain't right." COME ON, isn't THAT either overzealous or incompetent? He's not just saying what the agent cannot do, he is making a claim about what the agent DID. Accusing the TSA agent of an act he did not commit? Even AFTER he was already corrected on this once by Penn?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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The guard did a reach around, could'a grabbed it.
If I didn't know Penn I would be aweful nice to him, he's a big dude. |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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On 2010-11-22 00:06, MagicSanta wrote: Sure, could'a. But Penn said he didn't.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Of course the cop is wrong. Isn't the cop ALWAYS wrong? Touch decision when you guys have to choose between blame on two groups you always attack huh?
What did the cop do? What EXACTLY did the cop do so wrong, and if it was so wrong why no report on his overzealous or incompetence? Now he is incompetant? Lord you guys are funny. Don't worry though, the cops will still be there for you when you need them. Oh and he didn't act before because he didn't have a COMPLAINT before! Oh no but that makes him incompetant in your book.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2010-11-22 09:08, Dannydoyle wrote: I would imagine if anyone is criticizing the cop, it would be under the assumption (first clue) that he was being inconsistent. Any assertion, or even assumption of this would imply a generalization of all police to say this one is acting inconsistent. Unless of course they actually know, or are familiar with the cop in question. By the by, I would love to read Penn's writing you were referring to on anarcho capitalism. Do you have a link?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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I would imagine if anyone is criticizing the cop, it would be under the assumption (first clue) that he was being inconsistent. Any assertion, or even assumption of this would imply a generalization of all police to say this one is acting inconsistent. Unless of course they actually know, or are familiar with the cop in question. Which is EXACTLY my problem. You managed to sum it up well enough for me thank you. Not saying you agree with the point, only saying that you did capsualise it quite well.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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On 2010-11-22 09:08, Dannydoyle wrote: For one thing, the cop accused an individual of performing a criminal act that the individual did not do (i.e., touch someone's "crank" without permission), in front of that individual's supervisor ("Your guy grabbed his crank. That ain't right."). This was AFTER Penn had already told the cop that no such action occurred. I think what the cop did here, impugning the TSA agent's character in front of his supervisor by making a false accusation, was wrong. Don't you? If not, why do you keep defending it? It is a simple question, Danny. Was the cop right to falsely accuse an individual of committing a criminal act in this situation, let alone in front of his supervisor? Yes or No? How do you know there was no report on the cop's behavior? You don't. Maybe there was. BTW no one here claimed that all cops were wrong. I was talking about this one cop, in one particular instance.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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Keep in mind that Penn gave us his recollections, not a verbatim transcript.
I would trust his memory that he remained "uncranked" but I'm skeptical of him remembering many of the exact words spoken. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Why don't we play "lets put things in context, instead of your stupid yes no game ok?
" The cop says, "If I have a citizen who is saying he was assaulted, you can't just send me away." Overzealous yet? Not really. THEN this happens. I tell the cop the story, in a very funny way. The cop, the voice of sanity says, "What's wrong with you people? You can't just grab a guy's crank without his permission." I tell him that my genitals weren't grabbed and the cop says, "I don't care, you can't do that to people. That's assault and battery in my book." Now Penn told the story in a funny way. Hmm maybe the cop didn't get that the crank wasn't actually grabbed. EVEN IF IT WASN'T IT IS STILL ASSAULT AND BATTERY! This is where for whatever reason you have a mental block stopping you from learning. The supervisor heard Penn correct the cop, so that is not really an issue of "in front of his supervisor" so let it go. So some more back and forth cop says the following. The supervisor says that they'll take care of the security guy. The cop says, "I'm not leaving until Penn tells me to. Now do you want to fill out all the paper work and show up in court, because I'll be right there beside you." Oh no a cop who wants to help a citizen! Holy cow he must be overzealous or on the take! Then they ask for video and the ONE sentence that may have been out of place was the next by the cop. The cop says, "Your guy grabbed his crank. That ain't right." Maybe he said it then maybe he didn't but the supervisor KNEW Penn corrected him so what is the harm? The ASSAULT took place regardless of crank turning, as did the BATTERY. The cop should have used less colorfull language. Oh so that makes him overzealous? If you want to ask yes no questions to make certain you never have to change a wrong statement do it with someone else ok? First learn the definitions in question then get back to me. Put things in context please it makes an honest discussion easier.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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On 2010-11-22 11:12, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: PLUS lets be honest he was teling the story to entertain, not to testify. BIG difference. He admits he used colorful language with the 800 number to complain then backed off and said "I wasn't hurt and my genetals were not touched". That was why I was not sure about if the cop actually said it the second time. Penn even refered to the cop as the "voice of reason". Thank you sir.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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On 2010-11-22 10:12, Dannydoyle wrote: Glad I could help, and I actually DO agree with the point, lol. One thing I find absolutely hilarious about this story though is how they people at the airport repeatedly try to dismiss the cop and say "there's no problem. You can go," and even before the cop gets there, "we don't need the police." They come across like THEY don't need the cops to enforce anything, so there's no need. Obviously it is a defensives tactic, but it's interesting hat they keep trying to tell Penn that there's no problem and he can go, when Penn's the one with the problem. I think it's up to HIM when it's resolved.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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Danny, YOU are the one who introduced the word "overzealous" into this thread. I never used the word until you did. After you used the word, and ONLY in direct response to your post, I used the phrase "overzealous OR incompetent". You are the one who suggested that the cop was just doing his job and did nothing wrong.
What I originally wrote was that "The cop might have been doing his job but he was not doing it properly." Later, I wrote "The cop was accusing the TSA agent of doing something that the TSA agent did not do. Is that standard operating procedure for cops? At the very least, it certainly does not sound very professional." Was the cop right to falsely accuse an individual of committing a criminal act [touching Penn's "crank" without permission] in this situation, let alone in front of his supervisor? Yes or No? IMO, he was not. I really have nothing more to say on that.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Posted: Nov 21, 2010 10:11 pm 
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