Hi,
I'm ready to start learning a new 'move', and was looking for advice regarding angles.
I'm considering the Cardini/Ego Change, Erdnase Change, Venus Trap or the Asher Twist. Which would be the best for real world situations performing for small groups. I'm not worried about having spectators looking from over my shoulder, but would like to be able to use the move I learn on an audience bigger than one.

Thanks very much.

mbwambwa,

I would offer that you are approaching this backwards. Why are you learning "moves" and not effects? Your question as written has little meaning in the sense that magic is not about the method but about effect. Reading it as it is, you would for example learn the Erdnase change and then "use it" on a group of people? Why?

Ask yourself the following:

What do I want my audiences to experience?

What does effect mean?

What does method mean?

Is magic a performing art?

There are many more questions, but these are a good start. Is it your aim to be a "move monkey" or is it your desire to be a magician? Do you want to entertain and mystify others or do you merely want to present a puzzle?

My advice to you would be to study effects and if there are sleights IN the effect's method, learn those sleights. Read about misdirection/directed attention. Do you understand basic stage concepts? Remember that YES magic IS a performing art. Have you found "yourself" in terms of either a character you invent or the character as yourself but polished as a performer?

Have you mastered a card control or two? A multiple lift? A palm? How is your shuffling?

And to return to the very salient point, why are you focusing on "moves?"

अहिंसा

Vlad

Vlad I here what your are saying.However I want to add this ,learning a control or a move will allow one to create his own effect using that particular move
vinny

Vinny,

I agree with you of course. However, the OP wasn't explicit in terms of inventing but rather performing.

And I would add that the Asher Twist and the Erdnase Change are different in application such that the OP seems to be wanting advice on what "move" to learn. Perhaps I just got hung up on the wording.

अहिंसा

Vlad

The moves I listed all result in what I consider to be very visual changes, more along the lines of an illusion than a card trick. The initial response to my question about problems with angles was outright ignorant. If that's considered advice, then just keep it to yourself. Who are you to tell someone how they're supposed to use magic to entertain an audience. And if you don't think transformations in and of themselves are magical enough, then I think it's you who needs to take a step back and look at what magic is.

It's people like you who discourage legitimately interested amateurs from pursuing something that should be fun.

Mbwambwa, I think what Vlad is trying to say is that it's all well and good to learn new moves. But unless you have a context for them, they won't mean anything.

In other words, just walking up to someone and visually changing one card for another without any context is probably not going to be very effective. You could have someone pick a card, attempt to find it, fail and then change that card into the selection. That's an effect, all be it a simple one. But it can be very effective. Because the spectator picks the card, it gets them involved and more interested in what you are doing.

Tricks have plots. A transformation with no context isn't very magical. It's just a guy showing off with cards. Spectators are more interested in seeing magic which involves them.

Vlad was not trying to discourage you from learning magic. What he's doing is discouraging you from just learning moves and using those moves without any motivation.

Thanks Cameron. I understand exactly what you're saying and appreciate the help. My routine so far has relied heavily on jogs for control, double lifts, false cuts and shuffles and a basic palm, and things have been going really well. I just wanted to add a new dimension to my performances, which was the reason for my post here.

Any advice on which moves, from the one's I listed, would be the most practical to use as part of an overall routine.

Thanks very much.

Great advice from Vlad and Cameron Bravo guys!!

You did not mention the 1 hand top palm I think it is a very useful move that you can put into a routine and there are many routines that use it. I have tried the Asher Twist and found it a bit tricky with people having to look down on the cards so my hands are low and I like everyone to be infront so they do not see the cards turning on the side but I guess if you practice it well enough then that won:t be a problem I need more practice...I like the erdnase change which I am better at then the twist. the top palm is my favorite though. hope this 2 cents helps. Sean.

Thanks very much for the advice. I am going to start working on the Erdnase first.

It just takes practice, guys. I created this tips page for those looki...... magical. Check it out.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for playing with the goods.

Asher
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Lee: Thanks for the link to your tips page. Very helpful info! Can't wait til I'm ready to perform this.

Practice with a mirror then you would know the best angles