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djkuttdecks Special user Portland 662 Posts |
Well, maybe I'm seeing a pattern when it comes to releasing these videos. Since Thanksgiving is right around the corner and we will soon be stuffed with turkey, ham, and yams, I thought it would be a great time for another "Out of Sleight" Bill Palmer video. (you know, because we are all thankful he's a good friend to us all)
As we continue talking with Bill, we look into the history of the worlds oldest trick. Where did it all start? How does Mr. Palmer think the real history of the cups and balls happened? And what were the cups like in the earliest descriptions of this classic performance? Many thanks to Bill Palmer for taking time to help with this project. Take a moment and learn the early history of the Cups and Balls from one of the foremost experts on the subject. A special thanks should be said to RNT2 and Donnie Buckley who have seen the value of this information and have become the official sponsor for each video. Without them, the premium vimeo account would not be possible. This allows greater definition and quality, larger upload sizes, and more control over the content (that will help keep it out of the hands of those who expose). We have much more coming especially with Christmas right around the corner! So just keep a patient eye out and know its all going to be worth it. The video is, of course, password protected until Thanksgiving day. I'm doing this for the loyal Café members. You'll get the first view! Whats the password? finish the second word... happy "t-a--s-i-ing" Video can be found at OutOfSleight -Lee |
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Dale Houck Veteran user Dakota J Magic at Saint Cloud, FL 343 Posts |
Another fascinating video! A huge thanks to Bill, Donnie, and Lee!
Magic is where you find it.....
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padre rich Special user 635 Posts |
Nice!
God's grace rocks! It makes a good cups and balls routine look pretty boring in comparison.
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Donnie Buckley V.I.P. Cleveland, Ohio 1123 Posts |
I just watched a documentary on a new theory about the origin and purpose of Stonehenge that was produced by National Geographic. The archeologist described a civilization of ancient people that lived in ancient Britian (about 5000 years ago) as "The Beaker People", because of the prevalence of beakers in with their remains. They emerged somewhere between the Neolithic age and the Bronze age.
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Kevin Gardner Regular user Richboro, PA 177 Posts |
Great interview thanks!
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-22 17:35, Donnie Buckley wrote: These are also called the Bell Beaker People. They are mentioned on my page of ancient cups and do fit into the theory of how the cups and balls developed. Their Beakers were found from what is now Spain, through parts of France and Germany, the British Isles and part of Western Russia. BTW, the set of pottery cups that I said I was going to make actually have been made. Well, halfway made, any way. I have three cups that are ready to be fired. I'll complete the project in December. This is going to be way cool!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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cfrye Special user Portland, Oregon, USA 940 Posts |
Great stuff!
Curt |
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djkuttdecks Special user Portland 662 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-22 17:35, Donnie Buckley wrote: One of the reasons I liked this part of the interview so much is because it is a look into the history of the effect that is rarely ever talked about. We have (for most of us) heard about the paintings, and the history in the middle ages, even the depictions in the pyramids. This however is a completely different discussion that takes a look into different cultures and an even more ancient history. I personally found this part of the video very interesting and "new" so to speak. -Lee OutOfSleight |
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Tom Fenton Inner circle Leeds, UK (but I'm Scottish) 1477 Posts |
Superb!
History and entertainment in one 5 minute movie. Many thanks to Lee, Bill and Donnie.
"But there isn't a door"
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dcjames Special user 577 Posts |
Fascinating!
Thanks so much to all involved in bringing this project to fruition.
“Magic is very easy to do - poorly.”
Tommy Wonder The Books of Wonder Volume 2 |
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cupsandballsmagic Inner circle 2705 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-22 17:35, Donnie Buckley wrote: Donnie, it was built by my early ancestors, we had to have somewhere to perform cups and balls you know! Thanks Bill, Donnie and Lee for bringing this to us, this is getting more and more fascinating by the minute and, as others have said, a very different take on the usual. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Much of this early history is now on the Cups and Balls Museum web site. I have added a new section to the "Regular Cups" series that covers the ancient cups in far more detail than before. You can find it at http://69.89.31.132/~cupsandb/museum/ancientcups.htm
If you don't have a login, please send me an e-mail at curator@cupsandballsmuseum.com requesting a password. I will send one to you as soon as I receive your e-mail.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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volto Special user 603 Posts |
Cupsandballsmagic: lol
My parents made a lot of sacrifices to put me through college. Well, they were druids... This project is fantastic. Huge credit and great thanks to all involved. More please! |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Funny, you don't look Drewish!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Donnie Buckley V.I.P. Cleveland, Ohio 1123 Posts |
Cups and Balls may very well have been performed at Stonehenge. It actually carbon dates older than the Druids.
According to the current archeological evidence, the stone monument was a burial ground and was a place of worship at sundown (death), but down the road and up the river was a second wooden monument that was a place of worship for fertility rights at sunrise (life). In one day on the solstice, the ancesters were revered, the dead cremated and layed to rest with the ancestores (at the stones), and then a procession was lead to the second wooden monument and a great feast and party was held at the wooden monument; and enough Bell Beaker people congregated there, from all over, that IF a game with the beakers and pebbles existed at that time, someone most certainly would have busted it out. But since they were primarily hunter/gatherers with no evidence of any kind of commerce, I don't know what the wagers would have been made with. It's interesting that IF cups an balls existed in a civilization prior to it developing some sort of commerce, it must have been performed as an act of conjuring rather than a gambling game. I've always been of the opinion that the cups and balls was originally a gambling game which had been taken over by magicians. Magicians would have ruined any chance of finding a rube to play the game, so now it is relegated to soley being a conjurer's trick. I wonder if the Three Shell Game didn't grow out of the premise of the original cups game and that the rules of the Three Shell Game are probably the same as they were for the old cups game. New moves, smaller more mobile equipment, but same game. I don't know though, the Three Shells came about so recently, and conjurers owned the cups game for a long time prior... |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
The three shell game may be older than most of us believe. There is evidence, for example, that some of the shell game (or thimble rig) operators during the 17th century were also conversant with the cups and balls, and that they used the cups and balls to fleece people as well.
The shapes of the early cups generally lend themselves quite well to shell game type moves.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Donnie Buckley V.I.P. Cleveland, Ohio 1123 Posts |
No kidding.
I'd always heard that the shells came about out of necessity during a time when people started to move faster via trains and steamboats. The operator didn't have the time, space or audience to set up three cups, but three shells or thimbles on a lap board worked very nicely and provided for a quick game of chance (and quick exit). It certainly could be older though. You would know better than I. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
The actual use of shells may have been later than the inception of the cups, but the early cup routines very likely had the basic shell game move in them.
There is one very famous painting from ca. 1505 that shows two shells in it, though. It's the Temptation of St. Anthony by Bosch. The right panel of the triptych shows a pair of shells on a table. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co......ight.jpg Etienne pointed this out to me.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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WoodRat Loyal user California 233 Posts |
Say Bill,
Thanks for sharing this. I was transfixed. You're a great story teller. I'm eagerly waiting for the next installment!
Learn something new everyday.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
To tell you the truth, so am I! Lee has done a tremendous job with this.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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