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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All in the cards » » Force Needed! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Russell Davidson
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I ordered Challenge Name a Card by Mark Strivings which is a variation of Eddie Joseph's Premonition.

The description said spectator just thinks of a card. This isn't entirely true & the suggestion provided is horrible IMO. So now I am looking for a force. I need to limit their selection to a black odd or red even card.

Any ideas?
AsL
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Just to clarify (since I don't own this)- You're looking for a force that is "deck-free"?
a brown 1968
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Hi ,

Need a little more info .. Is this a force where the card is known to all or just the spectator until the end ?

Really need a full description of the effect to help

Andy
Bob1Dog
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This might be a better topic in the "Penny for your thoughts section"; I bet some folks in there could help....just a thought, pardon the pun....
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
a brown 1968
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Hi Russell,

Whilst this approach is not a strict think of a card , it may well play close enough.

Two decks - Red and Blue

Red deck : mix the black odd cards and even red cards together , then place them in the deck so all are at the even positions in the deck and the other cards at the odd positions:

Blue deck: 20 blue backed cards on top (not black odd or even red) , then red backed duplicates of the black odd and even red cards and finally 6 blue backed cards on the bottom.

EFFECT

Table the blue deck and remove the red deck from its box and mix with a charlier shuffle, this will not effect the set up.

Cut the deck a few times and glimpse the bottom card until it is not an odd black or even red card.

Hand this deck to spectator A who is asked to slowly deal cards facedown on the table until spectator B says STOP .. As the cards are being deal you are counting them . If when they say stop the card on the table is an even number say 20 , then this is one of the force chocies and spectator B is asked to pick it up and show the face so that only A can see it and he is to remember the card. The chosen card is placed into B pocket for safe keeping. If the card on the table is say the 21st card, then the top card of the deck held by B is one of the force cards and this one is shown to Spectator A , then pocketed . Either way the impression is a deck is freely mixed up cut a few times, to prevent any manipulation a spectator deals the cards on the table and another spectator says stop any time they want and they think of the card they are shown , which is then hidden from sight and only spectator A could possibly know what that card is.

The red deck is put back together and put to oneside .

The performer removes the blue deck from its box and can spread the top 18 cards to show all blue backed

Deck turned over with cards in LH the face card is taken by the RH and cards pushed off the face up deck on top of it one by one until the spectator sees his card on top of the LH cards when he says stop. The cards in the RH are squared and turned faceddown and tabled (spectator see a blue backed card on top)

The card stopped at is also tabled face up .

The LH continues to spread cards between the hands until you reach midway between the bluebacked group of 20 cards. Again these are taken by the RH squared up and turned facedown and dropped on the already tabled pile .

The balance of 10 cards are spread, flipped over still spread , showing blue backs and fropped onto the pile . By now the spectator is convinced all the cards are blue backed and the handling has been natural .

Pointing to the single face up card on the table , you recap on the fairness of how spectator A came to be thinking about 1 card out of 52 in the red deck .

You had a premonition about this very card a red backed Queen of Hearts , not blue backed but red backed ..and having faith and conviction you placed a single red backed card in that deck .

You ask him to turn the card over and written in bold on the back is - " You are thinking of the Queen of Hearts.

Or given the number of force cards , why not just have them all on the bottom of a deck , shuffle them to the top using the overhand Ireland shuffle, spread about 20 cards with the faces showing from the top,
the spectator and ask him to think of anyone he sees . The fact he can't see all 52 cards is irrelevant , in his mind he is thinking of one of many cards and there is now way you can know that card and that is the truth

A couple of ideas off the top of my head

I appreciate the card has not vanished from one deck and reappeared in the other. but do I have to prove that by having a spectator take time dealing through the deck? Why not just show that the other appears to be all blue backed cards except for 1 red backed card and let the spectator reach the conclusion that you had a premonition and placed a sinlge duplicate in the blue deck

I do have a version of Peter Duffie's Vanished & Gone called "vanished and burned"which creates a card in a spectator's mind in a very fair manner and the deck can be shown to only be 51 cards quickly and the only missing the chosen card. You never touch the deck and unlike Peter's there is only 1 possible outcome not two where one is not as strong as the other.


Andy
panlives
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Quote:
On 2010-11-27 06:45, a brown 1968 wrote:
Hi Russell,

Whilst this approach is not a strict think of a card , it may well play close enough.

Two decks - Red and Blue

Red deck : mix the black odd cards and even red cards together , then place them in the deck so all are at the even positions in the deck and the other cards at the odd positions:

Blue deck: 20 blue backed cards on top (not black odd or even red) , then red backed duplicates of the black odd and even red cards and finally 6 blue backed cards on the bottom.

EFFECT

Table the blue deck and remove the red deck from its box and mix with a charlier shuffle, this will not effect the set up.

Cut the deck a few times and glimpse the bottom card until it is not an odd black or even red card.

Hand this deck to spectator A who is asked to slowly deal cards facedown on the table until spectator B says STOP .. As the cards are being deal you are counting them . If when they say stop the card on the table is an even number say 20 , then this is one of the force chocies and spectator B is asked to pick it up and show the face so that only A can see it and he is to remember the card. The chosen card is placed into B pocket for safe keeping. If the card on the table is say the 21st card, then the top card of the deck held by B is one of the force cards and this one is shown to Spectator A , then pocketed . Either way the impression is a deck is freely mixed up cut a few times, to prevent any manipulation a spectator deals the cards on the table and another spectator says stop any time they want and they think of the card they are shown , which is then hidden from sight and only spectator A could possibly know what that card is.

The red deck is put back together and put to oneside .

The performer removes the blue deck from its box and can spread the top 18 cards to show all blue backed

Deck turned over with cards in LH the face card is taken by the RH and cards pushed off the face up deck on top of it one by one until the spectator sees his card on top of the LH cards when he says stop. The cards in the RH are squared and turned faceddown and tabled (spectator see a blue backed card on top)

The card stopped at is also tabled face up .

The LH continues to spread cards between the hands until you reach midway between the bluebacked group of 20 cards. Again these are taken by the RH squared up and turned facedown and dropped on the already tabled pile .

The balance of 10 cards are spread, flipped over still spread , showing blue backs and fropped onto the pile . By now the spectator is convinced all the cards are blue backed and the handling has been natural .

Pointing to the single face up card on the table , you recap on the fairness of how spectator A came to be thinking about 1 card out of 52 in the red deck .

You had a premonition about this very card a red backed Queen of Hearts , not blue backed but red backed ..and having faith and conviction you placed a single red backed card in that deck .

You ask him to turn the card over and written in bold on the back is - " You are thinking of the Queen of Hearts.

Or given the number of force cards , why not just have them all on the bottom of a deck , shuffle them to the top using the overhand Ireland shuffle, spread about 20 cards with the faces showing from the top,
the spectator and ask him to think of anyone he sees . The fact he can't see all 52 cards is irrelevant , in his mind he is thinking of one of many cards and there is now way you can know that card and that is the truth

A couple of ideas off the top of my head

I appreciate the card has not vanished from one deck and reappeared in the other. but do I have to prove that by having a spectator take time dealing through the deck? Why not just show that the other appears to be all blue backed cards except for 1 red backed card and let the spectator reach the conclusion that you had a premonition and placed a sinlge duplicate in the blue deck

I do have a version of Peter Duffie's Vanished & Gone called "vanished and burned"which creates a card in a spectator's mind in a very fair manner and the deck can be shown to only be 51 cards quickly and the only missing the chosen card. You never touch the deck and unlike Peter's there is only 1 possible outcome not two where one is not as strong as the other.


Andy



Great ideas that probably belong in Secret Sessions.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
Magic Patrick
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How about a one way force deck and a switch out of the deck. I mean with a little misdirection (i.e. sign the face of your card, etc.) you can pull it off with ease.

However, if you were to give us more info it would be helpful.
Russell Davidson
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Soz for not providing enough info & thanks for the help so far.

The force I was after was to have someone think of a card but to limit that choice to black odd or red even cards. After some deliberation I have decided to go a different way where now the spec chooses a card from a blue deck & it is the only one missing from the red deck & it has a red back.

I just can't think of a force that doesn't obviously limit the selection therefore weakening the effect.
the fritz
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Ha ha! Andy does it again... you never cease to amaze me with your creative thinking my friend.
a brown 1968
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Thanks for the kind words
Lawrence O
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Buy "Kenton Knepper presents The Secret with Bob Sheets and Allen Zingg": the way to mentally force the color as you request is part of what this very subtle booklet teaches.

May the Force be with you
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Rennie
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I think there are so many methods to force a card, that you should be able to find one. Annemann had book titled, as I recall '101 Methods of Forcing a Card" as well as many other methods. You should definitely be able to force what you want. What about Eqivoque?
Rennie
The effect is the important thing, how you achieve it is not.......
panlives
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Consider purchasing the “Encyclopedia of Impromptu Card Forces,” by Lewis Jones.

From the product description:

“H & R Magic Books is proud to present Encyclopedia of Impromptu Card Forces. There has never been a book quite like this before. It is the first-ever encyclopedic collection of card forces.

These forces don't make use of gimmicked cards of any kind. Many of them are well off the beaten track, and many have never appeared in print before.

The previous British edition was limited to just 300 copies and sold out quickly. This American edition makes this work available to wider audience at a most reasonable price. It contains over 500 forces, and these are illustrated with more than a hundred photographed illustrations.

Steve Beam, funny man and card expert extraordinaire, gave us the following quotes:

"Forcing is about give and take - you give and they take. If your audiences wanted to select cards, they wouldn't have to be forced. For these occasions, Lewis has created the one-stop force source."

"If you are looking for the best ways to force yourself and your cards on future audiences, this is the book for you."

"There are more forces here than Obi Wan could shake a light saber at. May the Source be with you."

"Lewis Jones has marshaled his forces and published them in a giant volume. For those who believe that free choice is over-rated, this book was built for you. May the Source be with you."

"Lewis Jones has added new meaning to the term "force book." Any sissy can do 202 forces - real magicians will want 500 of them. The Encyclopedia of Card Forces is the mother lode."

Steve Bryant in reviewing the British printing, said "Lewis Jones's hardbound Encyclopedia of Impromptu Card Forces (subtitle: 500 Forces with a Borrowed Deck), weighing in at a whopping 294 oversized pages, is all its title and subtitle claim it to be. And to repeat that number, it's five hundred practical forces. For this second edition Lewis Jones has rewritten, reshuffled, and expanded his prior compilation of practical card forces into the following categories: Blind forces, Combination forces, Comedy forces, Count forces, Cut forces, Equivocation forces, Forcing formulas, The glide, The hold out, Locators, Multiple forces, Probability forces, Spelling forces, Stop forces, and Switches. The list includes old favorites as well as those that will be new to you. ... This is a grand resource..."

Pages: 294 - Hardbound with Dustjacket”
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
Spellbinder
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My version of "Think A Card" has just been published in The Wizards' Journal #20 (on my site). The effect is as follows: Show a deck of blue backed cards and shuffle them, showing them to be different. Mention how much you hate having a magician tell you to pick a card, any card and how you have always suspected that they cheat and somehow make you choose a particular card of their own choosing, not yours. So you will do something different. You will turn the cards face up and allow a spectator to freely select any card that she is absolutely positive is a completely free and fair choice.
“That’s it,” you declare. “The card trick is over. I just made you pick the (name the card that is face up on the table). You can all go home now.” When they refuse to believe you, spread out the deck of cards and show them all the blue backs. Point to the face up card and say, “That is the one card I put into this deck that has a red back. I knew you would choose it. Go ahead. Turn it over and see.” When the card is turned over, it does, indeed, have a red back, but it also has a message written on the back “I knew you would choose the (name of the card).”

I include two versions of the effect. One uses a gimmicked deck, but the other one uses a regular deck that can be handled and even examined by the end of the routine.
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

http://www.magicnook.com

Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
mahucharn
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You could just force a card on them using the classic Hindu force; however, then they do not have that feeling of the ability to pick any random card. I also really liked a brown 1968's idea.
ropeadope
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Try Mark Wilson`s Encyclopedia.

John
Nothing is better than more.
a brown 1968
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Thanks guys for the comments . I have a passion for creating self working effects. They give me more of a buzz then when I create one with sleights.

The Café is a great resource for inspiration . Happened to be in the workers forumn , looked through the top 10 effects of the decade and saw a link to Armando's "empanada" effect .A great great effect , way beyond my skills but it did set of the seed of an idea to create an effect following the same theme. A card mentally created by two people is found between two unqiue markers that come together slowly in a pack of cards.
B. T. Lewis
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Quote:
On 2010-12-13 11:38, Rennie wrote:
I think there are so many methods to force a card, that you should be able to find one. Annemann had book titled, as I recall '101 Methods of Forcing a Card" as well as many other methods. You should definitely be able to force what you want. What about Eqivoque?
Rennie


Half right I think... It's "202 ways of forcing", no?
virtualwizard
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This has been an interesting read. I came across this searching for "forces". I find from time to time I need to change up the forces that I use. This was useful. Thanks everyone for contributing.
Mike the Magician
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