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Nosher Loyal user 261 Posts 
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The LHC appears to have detected the "soup of particles" matter state or quark-gluon plasma, postulated to have existed about 0.00000000001 seconds after the big bang.
Fantastic stuff. Press release : http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressRele......10E.html
Escapemaster-in-chief from all sorts of houdingplaces - Finnegans Wake
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Carrie Sue Veteran user Auburn, MI 332 Posts
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So they found out they exist now. They don't know if they existed then.
"Showing beyond doubt that we can produce and study quark gluon plasma will bring important insights into the evolution of the early Universe." No, it won't! It'll only show that we can produce and study these particles and tell an interesting story about them. Scientifically, as it relates to history, it will prove nothing. They only call this stuff a "primordial state of matter" because it fits their theory. It's a different state of matter, and that's all you can say scientifically. That's my opinion, anyway. Carrie |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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And why are you questioning their work, Carrie? I'm guessing because it doesn't fit your dogma.
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts
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John
Carrie would have us cease all research, and dedecate our time and energy to proving that the earth is flat, or better yet square.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 188 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-11-27 08:42, Carrie Sue wrote: The qgp was created under conditions that mimicked the early universe - so it DID exist then (assuming those early universe conditions, and there's currently no reason to presuppose any other set of conditions). The fact that empirical results fits existing theories strengthens, not weakens, those theories. Anyway, I'll trust the opinion of the top physicists in the world on these matters. If they say it will bring important insights into the evolution of the early universe, then I'd have to agree with them. Science. It's a wonderful thing! 
Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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Of course they are testing hypotheses. That's how science works, for Go--- for Darwin's--sake.
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2889 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-11-27 10:05, Al Angello wrote: ...and is circled by the sun.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-11-27 08:42, Carrie Sue wrote: "They only call this stuff a "primordial state of matter" because it fits their theory." And, as said before, YOU are only denying such results/research because it does NOT fit YOUR theory. In other words, exactly the opposite of how science works.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4247 Posts
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Chuckle - lots of name calling (unfortunately, as usual in these topics).
"The qgp was created under conditions that mimicked the early universe" - that is a pretty tall order, since early universe conditions can only be theorized as well! Not getting the link to work, for some reason....
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Chessmann Inner circle 4247 Posts
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From the article:
"One of the primary goals of the lead-ion programme at CERN is to create matter as it would have been at the birth of the Universe. Back then, the ordinary nuclear matter of which we and the visible Universe are made could not have existed: conditions would have been too hot and turbulent for quarks to be bound up by gluons into protons and neutrons..." Because of the heat discussed here, must the Big Bang theory be assumed in order for things to have played out as they suggest? If the 'ordinary nuclear matter' that we have today could not have existed (due to the heat and turbulence), are there any thoughts on how either (a) the matter changed into the ordinary nuclear material we are made of currently, or (b) how the nuclear matter we are made of came about, if not from the older material and (c) what happened to the 'original' (right term?) qgp material - do they believe it no longer exists/still around in some capacity/died out, etc...
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Chessmann Inner circle 4247 Posts
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BTW, when I first looked at the topic, my eyes switched 2 letter within one word of the phrase. Anyone care to guess which?
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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Oh man, you've ruined that word for me!
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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"...matter as it would have existed in the very first instants of the Universe’s life..."
They do tend to leave out the "according to the current model" a bit often, don't they. Go ahead and call them on it. It might help them remember to discuss models and theories as such rather confuse the map with the terrain.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-11-28 19:57, Chessmann wrote: That would be the entire point of experimenting. To test said theories and see if the results are consistent with what is theorized and predicted. Such experiments have been showing we are on the right track. And when they show otherwise it allows us to correct course. Bit different than constantly twisting findings to fit ones theory. You adjust your theories with the facts and findings.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4247 Posts
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Trust me, I know the point of experimenting.
Refer to Jonathan's post.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Chessmann Inner circle 4247 Posts
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Speaking of experiments, I'm sorting my (2) daughters' newly washed socks.
Can someone suggest an experiment to help me determine why, at the end of the process, there are always 5-6 socks that have no match, and why - despite my best efforts - this situation never varies?
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-11-28 20:53, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Because it gets a bit redundant. You don't hear people giving the same critique whenever someone discusses the speed of light, insisting on people adding "which is only constant according to the current model."
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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My suspicion is that Jon's (correct observation) is largely a consequence of popular press reporting. In addition to being non-experts, reporters (and editors) have to meet readability and space requirements. Subtlety and detail are often the casualties of production.
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-11-29 09:09, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Also completely true.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4247 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-11-29 08:49, gdw wrote: The speed of light has been around quite a bit longer and is much more well-known in general circles than some of the things surrounding this current project. It can definitely be redundant to folks who surround and work with this, your're absolutely right there, but for the general public it can be better to be somewhat clearer.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Posted: Nov 27, 2010 07:44 am 
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