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Denis Bastible
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I apologize if this question has been beaten to death elsewhere on this forum. I would like to devote some time to learning ONE stack that is not easy to notice but not a killer to learn. I am aware of the Tamariz, Aronson and Stebbins set ups, but am asking those who have used one, both, all or others what they would recommend a person put their time into learning and using?
Michael J
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Hi denisb,

I know and have known the the Nokola stack for many years. I've looked at the others but made a concious decision to stay with the Nikola.

I used mnemonics to learn the stack. It wasn't that difficult.

I would suppose that most of the younger magicians would tend towards Tamariz or Aronson.

In my view, I don't think it matters which one you learn as the effect on the audience is very satisfying.

Best of luck in learning a stack.

All the best

Michael
Denis Bastible
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Thanks Michael, I will check that out.
Doug McKenzie
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First figure out what kind of effects you wish to perform with a stack and take it from there.
tpearman
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I agree with Doug. Knowing what you want to accomplish with your deck will make it easier to make a decision.
inaciolino
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As it was said before, it depends on your goal. First determine the kind of effects you want to present, after that you'll be able to choose the better stack. I hope I could help. See you!!!
mrehula
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Quote:
On 2010-11-27 17:16, inaciolino wrote:
As it was said before, it depends on your goal. First determine the kind of effects you want to present, after that you'll be able to choose the better stack. I hope I could help. See you!!!


Absolutely. Research stacks and decide. I memorized Aronson, since it has so much built in. However, I have visions of ultimately developing my own stack with features I want built in. Simon's 'Memories Are Made of This' ebook, available free on his website, is a great place to start.
ddyment
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I have written a fairly detailed essay that sheds light on this topic (it's more on memorized decks, but briefly addresses sequential stacks as well). It includes a useful (spreadsheet) resource on a variety of"Si Stebbins" stack incarnations.
Doug Dyment's Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
Jonathan C
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I went through this dilemma a couple of years ago. In the end I went with Tamariz, simply because it's easily accessible from new deck order. The built-in effects for Aronsons stack are fantastic however for day-to-day use the practicality of the Tamariz stack suited me' better.

To be honest though, you can't go wrong with any memorised stack as the most powerfull mem deck effects aren't stack specific.
todsky
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I memorized Aronson's stack a couple of years ago. It took me a couple of months. I performed Histed Heisted a few times, which is a very powerful mind-reading effect. But since I don't do adult shows very often, and I wasn't rehearsing the stack every day, I have forgotten the stack. So I've decided, after reading Joyals' 6 Hour Memorized Deck, that I will go with his stack. Rather than depending on memory, it uses a set of rules to remember the order.

So the moral is: if you don't use it, you'll lose it. Something to consider before investing heaps of time and brain power.
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ddyment
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So you see, there are varying opinions ... there is no "best" for everyone. Some like classical mnemonics (like the Aronson and Tamariz stacks); some like rule-based systems (like the Joyal and Matt stacks); some like algorithmic systems (like the Dyment and Harding stacks). Each has very specific advantages (as discussed in my essay, referenced above), and none is best for all purposes. So first decide which features are most important to you, and then go with what best seems to match those needs.
Doug Dyment's Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
Dennis Loomis
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Todsky,
Too bad you let the Aronson stack get away from you. If you had decided to relearn it I think that you would have found that it was much easier the second time. Also, for people considering memorizing a stack with classic mnemonics... you'll find that only a very small amount of time is required for the review needed to retain the stack. I do a daily walk and in just the first half block I run through the order of the cards in the Aronson stack. Then, as I walk I pull numbers from my environment and recall cards. For example, if I see a house number that says 512... I quickly recall the card at position 51, position 12, position 21, and position 15. Our environment is just full of number on license plates, bill boards, houses, etc. So, in five or ten minutes of walking I get a good review and I only have to do this a couple times a week. Often, when I'm driving to a show where I expect to do some memdeck work, I'll pull numbers off of license plates on the highway and recall cards just to sharpen up and be right on top of my game when I get to the gig.
Dennis Loomis
P. S. If you want a doggerel stack that's fast and easy to learn your might look at Eight Kings Threatened. It will do everything that Si Stebbins does, but the numerical sequence is almost impossible to spot for people unfamiliar with it.
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ddyment
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Eight Kings, alas, exhibits the same alternating-colour rotating-suit behaviour as Si Stebbins, which some of us prefer to avoid. If it offered learning benefits to offset this, it might be acceptable, but a solution like my own DAO Stack is no more difficult to learn or use (in fact, it's more direct), and is much more random in appearance.
Doug Dyment's Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
greydonthemagician
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Choose wisely after memorizing a stack it is difficult to pick up another. You will always switch back to your previously memorized stack.
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tiriri
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I use the eight kings for mentalism and it works in an excellent way. It is a very easy CHASED method but it doesn't have the numeric sequence of Si Stebbins, which, I believe, could be noticed by a smart person on the public trying to follow up with the mentalist.


Giovanni.
murrari
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The Aronson stack is my preferred stack and is something I have been using for around 7 years. There are a whole array of excellent tricks that you perform with this stack, mostly from Aronson himself in his books, but also from from other creators, i.e. Michael Close.
I own Mnemonica and have applied some of the ideas in Juan's superb book to the Aronson stack. (Some of Juan Tamariz's effects are stack specific).

As others have stated above, it doesn't really matter which stack you use - Harding, Nikola, Mayoral, Aronson, Tamariz, Eight Kings, Si Stebbins etc - what matters most is that you have complete mastery of it.

There's nothing worse than watching someone new to 'stack work' looking to the skies, lips trembling, sweat on the brow, making visible calculations!!

Good luck!!

BTW, as an aside, I would just like to mention the following. A lot of stacks are taught with the aid of mnemonics and visual images. In my opinion, this gives you twice as much to remember! For me sheer brute force memory for a few days and then regular practice will keep any stack in check for a lifetime. Just my two pennys worth.
Andrew Murray
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Steven Youell
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Quote:
On 2010-12-14 08:28, murrari wrote:
BTW, as an aside, I would just like to mention the following. A lot of stacks are taught with the aid of mnemonics and visual images. In my opinion, this gives you twice as much to remember! For me sheer brute force memory for a few days and then regular practice will keep any stack in check for a lifetime. Just my two pennys worth.

I've used mnemonics for over over 29 years-- since I was a freshman in High School.
In fact-- I remember using it for cards exactly as described in "The Memory Book".
I also used Harry's System in High School and College-- from another of Harry's
books specifically designed for students. I think the title was "Good Memory,
Successful Student"

I say that so you know I'm just not guessing here, I'm basing my conclusion on experience.

Used properly the specific pegs and associations go away over time after you use them
to memorize the information. I'm not referring to just cards, either.

Are you saying that if you're using mnemonics ONLY for a memorized stack, then you
have to "remember" the pegs for the cards? Because that isn't quite accurate either.
Once the order is in long term memory then those pegs go away just like the pegs for
the numbers involved.

Does your phrase "twice as much to remember" imply "twice as long to memorize"?
That's not quite true either. It took me 1 hour to learn the phonics for numbers.
The cards are initially remembered in such a way that you can almost instantly know
the pegs for the cards by understanding how the pegs were created. SO-- I memorized
my first "stack" in a little more than 2 hours. Putting it into long term memory
took a few days. Once it's in long term memory you're just not using the pegs anymore.

I guess what I'm saying is this-- "brute force" may work for you. But what
you're saying about mnemonics might mislead people and it seems to indicate
you don't understand the system well.

I'm sure he'll be here soon-- Harry if I'm wrong I will not be upset
if you correct me.

SEY
Harry Lorayne
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What can I tell you, Steve - everyone should listen to murrari - big help. Please! After over 60 years of teaching and helping people, statements like that make me feel...sorry? All that waste of my time!? Let's all use brute memory - I should know that the next time I have to remember the names and faces of everyone, up to 500 people, in one of my corporate or TV audiences. All these years I didn't realize how much easier it'd have been if I'd used "sheer brute force memory." The literally millions of people all over the world and over the decades that swear how beneficial my memory-training systems have been - including people like NYC mayor Mike Bloomberg, Police Comm. Raymond Kelly, Alan Alda, Colin Powell, people who have brain injuries, strokes, and on and on - who swear that "brute memory" it the worst, terrible, doesn't help ANYWHERE NEAR my techiques, etc. So, statements like murrari's are really a great help. But, hey, everyone is entitled to his opinion, even if it is based on ABSOLUTELY NO KNOWLEDGE except his own, and is completely wrong. Just my one penny's worth. HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

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murrari
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HL - I wrote this is a few hours ago (before your last post here) in a topic about whether I thought mnemonics were necessary to learn a stack - you might want to pay particular attention to the last line.

On 2010-12-14 08:39, murrari wrote:
Like most things in life, it all depends on YOU. Some can master a classic pass in a few weeks, others may never master it in a lifetime. People have physical differences just as they have mental differences. In this particular instance, some people can easily commit a list of items to memory, others always tend to forget things no matter what (unless they train themselves to have a better memory).

I use the Aronson Stack and I committed this to memory through brute force (actually for me it wasn't too rough!) I use the Stack a lot in my professional work so I am always on top of it. For me, learning mnemonics to remember something else seemed like an unnecessary two step process.

For others it may be the key to success.

My point? Do what suits you best.

(BTW, anyone looking to improve their memory would be doing themselves a huge favour by reading HL's books).
[/quote]

I have found your memory books very useful and interesting - I was just making the comment that I didnlt find that menmonics were necessary in memorising a stack... to memorise the names and faces of 500 people, now that's a whole different story!
Andrew Murray
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PLATINUM MEMBERSHIP is available here.

DNA
murrari
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BTW, apologies for the two errors in the post above "I wrote this is a few hours ago" should have been 'I wrote this a few hours ago" and "didnlt" should have been "didn't"

:)
Andrew Murray
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AndrewMurrayMagic

DON'T WAIT FOR INSPIRATION is my brand new e-book with 10 new routines.

APTITUDE is my first PLATINUM e-book with 10 new routines + 'SIGNS' bonus.

PLATINUM MEMBERSHIP is available here.

DNA
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