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Tony45
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Hi guys
I have been reading some of the posts and would like to ask which dvd is the most recommended for teaching the second and bottom deal. I am leaning towards Jason Englands product and another called fast company, I watched a few of Jasons moves on youtube and was impressed but when I saw him do the pass I almost fell out of my chair, great doesn't even come close to describing it, at least from my view. I do a second but saying its bad would be kind and my bottom is non existent.
Any help would be appreciated.
blackeagle
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I remember reading one of your previous post that you claim to be a gambling man. Thus, assuming that you plan to use such moves for profit, I highly advise you not to worry so much about false deals rather focus mainly on riffle stacking. Bottom dealing is somewhat widely known among poker players and even though most of them have never even seen a real bottom deal, they may implement a cut card destroying a large percentage of your cheating abilities. However if you insist,

Fast company - Teaches the Squeeze bottom deal which I think is the most valuable thing on that dvd. It has a more natural look to it.
Richard Turner has some excellent work as well.
It really comes down to your intentions with these moves. Is it for magic demonstration or serious gambling.
silverking
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(I'm pretty sure Tony said he was a Dealer, not sure how that would imply that he's looking to move at the table).

Jason's stuff is great, some of the best on the topic(s). The key is that it's being taught by somebody who knows how to teach.

Fast Company has some great stuff on it, and the bottom is quite well known........but I'd do Jason's stuff first, if your goal was to actually learn to do seconds and bottoms.
Maitre D
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Blackeagle, try working a bustout game of blackjack with riffle stacks. You'll soon realize it doesn't look so pretty. There's an appropriate context for every move -- riffle stacks aren't the one stop shop for all your hustling needs.

I too recommend getting Jason's products, they're great.
splice
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I think the most important for these deals is to find a starting point and go from there. Once you have a bit of the theory down and start practicing, you will start finding ways to fix whatever little problem you come across. In the end, you may well have a deal that's not described 100% anywhere, but rather little things from here and there. In my case, it's like a Marlo master grip, some seesaw action similar to Richard Turner's bottom deal or Tony Giorgio's (on Fast Company), and as far as my seconds, I can't even tell anymore where my technique is from. Probably some stuff from Simon Lovell, Jason England, some Dai Vernon stuff in there.

Starting with Jason's stuff will get you far, and experimentation and practice will do the rest. Once you've done the deals for a while, you'll be able to read various texts on those deals and see if and how they apply to what you do better than trying to figure out the "right" way to start.

Also, I assume you have your reasons for asking, and I won't be telling you what you should be doing in what context. That's for you to decide. I figure if you wanted advice on WHICH moves to do instead of how to do them, you would've asked us that question.
AMcD
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Hi Tony45,

It depends actually what you wanna do with it.

If the point is to know the moves just grab some of the material mentioned above. As splice says, you only need a starting point as you will have to adapt the moves to your hands, your style, etc.

If you intend to use them for real, you must take the context into consideration. As Maitre D says, if you play BlackJack, riffle stack, for instance, is not gonna be the killer move. If you play hold'em it's gonna be another ball game. One anecdote, it's probably 7 years or more I haven't seen a game not using a cut card. Therefore, in my context, bottom dealing is simply useless. Those moves are really time consuming so select them carefully.

If you allow me some advice, I'd recommend not to practice the strike second deal. It's completely unnatural. I play cards for 27 years now and I've never seen someone dealing cards using the style involved with strike second deal (it looks like you're peeling the deck). Some people will tell you it doesn't matter since there are many grips, many ways to deal cards. That's true, but I don't clearly see the point to spend time on something not looking natural. Avoid suspicion at all cost. Magicians tend to fall in love with the strike second deal because it's impressive (once mastered) to deal the second card apparently not moving the top one nor the thumb. But from a naturalness point of view it's a complete absurdity. The thumb must move, the top card must move. Don't be afraid to use pretty large briefs.

I've never found a perfect source to learn those moves. Actually, the best is, IMHO, to read/watch as many of them as you can. Understand the underlying concepts, adapt them to your style, fingers, hands and context. Then practice a lot in front of cameras.
Chris Bruce
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Hi Tony45,

As mentioned previously, Jason has some great work on both of these moves. I don't believe Damian goes into detail regarding a second deal on Fast Company, only his bottom.

cb
inaciolino
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Go with Jason and you'll be fine. Jason's material is well worth the money you pay for them. See you!!!
Tony45
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Thanks for the help and insight, I'm not going to learn this stuff to make moves, at my age bones tend to take longer to heal when broken, so I will stay in the shape I'm in at the moment, lol. I cant stand poker by the way, my game was always Gin Rummy or Tonk, theres a few moves you can make in those games without having to be a great second or bottom dealer.
I have an idea which is all it is right now, an idea, to put together a little routine on gamblers moves and see where I might take it, might go no where but I'm gonna give it a little try. I will go with Jasons stuff on you guys recommendation and he impressed the hell out of me with his demos.
Thanks once again.
Maitre D
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Good luck! Smile
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